GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[lenaitch]

The point I was attempting to make, perhaps inelegantly, was that before money is spent on any kind of public transport between communities, there needs to be an analysis of travel patterns. Just because people can travel between say, Lindsay and Peterborough or Lindsay and Toronto, how many actually do (and are reasonably projected to) and at what frequency? How much of their populations travels to others for employment, how much are is a support for their surrounding rural area, how much are retirees, etc. A business case should drive the planning.

Edit for clarification: In my earlier post I mentioned that Lindsay residents would likely benefit from commuter rail service to Peterborough. I meant that they would likely benefit from the proposed HFR, either at Peterborough itself or possibly Pontypool. I didn't intend to imply that rail service between P'boro and Lindsay was necessarily a good idea.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The Uxbridge option is also effectively much longer - the track condition past Lincolnville GO is abysmal and would need full reconstruction for regular passenger service. The heritage railway along that stretch takes about an hour to go from Uxbridge to Stouffville right now as the track is in such terrible shape.

Lindsay doesn't need GO train service, it's too small and too remote to be worth servicing. It could use a GO bus connection to Oshawa GO if you ask me, but so too could a lot of smaller centres around Southern Ontario.

 

[kamira51]

Would we really consider adding 39 miles of track to service 20,000 people? If so, there are other larger communities that would want to line up for addition to the network.... Cambridge, Orangeville, St Thomas, Fort Erie, Bolton, New Tecumseth....

- Paul

A GO line in bolton would be very nice, as its only 15-20 minute drive from my house, instead of having to spend half an hour driving to the bramalea GO station.

 

[DKsan]

^Wikipedia tells me that the population of Lindsay is about 20,000 (2016 census). It’s more of a bedroom community to Peterboro or Durham Region than to Toronto.
The current GO line to Lincolnville is 30.3 miles from Union, including the LSE portion. It’s a further 39 miles to Lindsay along the old ROW.
Would we really consider adding 39 miles of track to service 20,000 people? If so, there are other larger communities that would want to line up for addition to the network.... Cambridge, Orangeville, St Thomas, Fort Erie, Bolton, New Tecumseth....

- Paul

Yes. Rebuild it all. Throw a couple of (battery electric if you want) DMUs on some of these lines and have some form of limited service. There's a study out in Waterloo Region of essentially buying some of that UPX DMU stock and running from Cambridge to Guelph via Hespeler as opposed to extending the GO from Milton.

Not just for sprawl reasons, but environmental reasons. Give people the option of living in a small town, but the ability to take a train to a regional centre for services, post-secondary, etc. Electric cars and buses are great, but they still cause congestion. But I agree, don't give it to GO in it's current form, or at least overhaul GO to have different regions...

 

[Allandale25]

A GO line in bolton would be very nice, as its only 15-20 minute drive from my house, instead of having to spend half an hour driving to the bramalea GO station.

Given how competitive that a riding will be in the 2022 provincial election along the route to Bolton (the OLP leader will be running in the riding), I wonder if the local PC or NDP candidate will feel compelled to promise GO train service to Bolton.

 

[mdu]

Unnecessary GO expansion for their constituents? Del Duca would never.

 

[Amare]

Unnecessary GO expansion for their constituents? Del Duca would never.

Knowing Del Duca he would even propose GO Train service all the way out to Thunder Bay. It would provide them with "great jobs in Toronto" and it would somehow in his world save the Bombardier/Alstom Thunder Bay plant from closing.

 

[Deadpool X]

All weekend construction crews and Metrolinx have been reconfiguring the platform and active track at the Milliken GO Station. The west track has been completely removed through the station including the bypass track. The east track is now the active running track and the crossing at Steeles Ave was upgraded this afternoon, Sunday October 18th, 2020, to add the second track. North of Steeles it still connects to the west track so that they can continue to use the passing track north of Kennedy, until the double tracking is complete. The block signal for the east track at Passmore Ave is turned on and the signals for the west track have been turned to the side. A temporary wooden platform for GO passengers has been built at the south end of the station in the alignment of the west track. This allows the station to remain open, and the present west platform to be rebuilt as well as completing the new east platform. You will notice from the photos of the new rail bridge that they have already begun to excavate underneath it. Pedestrian pathways are being built on both sides of the bridge. The photo of the Milliken station taken looking southward shows the new platform under construction and in the distance you can see the temporary wooden platform. You can also see that the west track has been completely removed, from Steeles Ave. down to just above Passmore Ave. John Jeffery photosView attachment 277665View attachment 277665View attachment 277666View attachment 277667View attachment 277668View attachment 277669View attachment 277670View attachment 277671View attachment 277672View attachment 277673

Will Steeles get realigned after this is over?

 

[drum118]

Will Steeles get realigned after this is over?

Steeles will remain as is until later 2021 or early 22 when traffic will be shifted to the new eastbound underpass to allow work on the westbound ends been block by the current road shifting.

The only thing remaining for the westbound lanes is the finishing of the retaining wall, and connecting the ends to the existing lanes/sidewalk. Only a few months of work to complete it.

The bulk of the work is the eastbound lanes and sidewalks. It also includes the removal of the earth for the westbound lanes, building the retaining wall and sidewalk.

In the end, Steeles will be almost the same as before, but 6 lanes under the underpass and then narrows to 4 lanes to the east

 

[SaugeenJunction]

For an unplanned service delay, it generally takes longer to orchestrate a detour than it takes to clear the original problem. I know of at least one case (a few years ago now) where the wheels were set in motion to detour but the Oakville line reopened before any trains detoured. The only viable use I can think of for the Canpa Sub is to feed empty trains to the Milton line as an alternative to enlarging the Milton layover yard, but that’s a very farfetched idea that CP might never agree to.

Don’t forget, the Canpa Sub was used to detour Milton Line GO trains earlier this year when the Milton Line was blocked by protesters. They actually seemed able to implement the detour in good time. I understand that the logistics aren’t ideal, however.

 

[ssiguy2]

^Wikipedia tells me that the population of Lindsay is about 20,000 (2016 census). It’s more of a bedroom community to Peterboro or Durham Region than to Toronto.
The current GO line to Lincolnville is 30.3 miles from Union, including the LSE portion. It’s a further 39 miles to Lindsay along the old ROW.
Would we really consider adding 39 miles of track to service 20,000 people? If so, there are other larger communities that would want to line up for addition to the network.... Cambridge, Orangeville, St Thomas, Fort Erie, Bolton, New Tecumseth....

- Paul

I completely agree. There would be howls of protest from other parts of Southern Ontario with several times the population wanting commuter rail. London-Strathroy, London-Ingersol-Woodstock, London-St.Thomas, Kitchener-Stratford, Hamilton-Brantford, and Windsor-Essex-Leamington would be the obvious choices and they have the infrastructure in place.

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

I remain baffled by the peculiar fixation on rail for transportation to connect low population areas. Given the significant subsidies for automotive transportation, and the relatively low initial costs, expanding GO bus service to the periphery, creating webs of connectivity, linking together communities. Hourly regional bus service can be introduced for vastly less than rebuilding a railroad right of way, and will have a meaningful impact for residents of towns that previously weren't well connected.

 

[DKsan]

I remain baffled by the peculiar fixation on rail for transportation to connect low population areas. Given the significant subsidies for automotive transportation, and the relatively low initial costs, expanding GO bus service to the periphery, creating webs of connectivity, linking together communities. Hourly regional bus service can be introduced for vastly less than rebuilding a railroad right of way, and will have a meaningful impact for residents of towns that previously weren't well connected.

Because North Americans prefer rail over buses. I'd suggest bus options if we were more European in this regard, but stigmas remain.

Also, in some places, the infrastructure is still there, so why not re-use it?

 

[Richard White]

Because North Americans prefer rail over buses. I'd suggest bus options if we were more European in this regard, but stigmas remain.

Also, in some places, the infrastructure is still there, so why not re-use it?

My preference is rail over road because of the traffic.

 

[Northern Light]

I remain baffled by the peculiar fixation on rail for transportation to connect low population areas. Given the significant subsidies for automotive transportation, and the relatively low initial costs, expanding GO bus service to the periphery, creating webs of connectivity, linking together communities. Hourly regional bus service can be introduced for vastly less than rebuilding a railroad right of way, and will have a meaningful impact for residents of towns that previously weren't well connected.

Already noted above but to add my concurrence; there is a psychological preference for rail which is widely perceived as middle-class or everyone transportation .............where buses are often seen as transport of last resort.

Much of that is misplaced, and or based on things that are not intrinsic to mode (odds of being seated vs standing, comfort of seat, station quality).

Though there is some truth, that in theory, a train can produce greater speed and shorter journey time; though that too is often not the case in our reality due to circuitous routes, poor track conditions or less capable rollingstock.

It does, absolutely, make sense that buses have to be any last mile; and that they should precursor trains where you couldn't find enough usage to credibly fill a small train more than 2x per day.

But there is value in introducing the train, where practical, and volumes may warrant (an assumption of induced demand, in addition to current commuter patterns).

I would suggest Brantford-Hamilton would be one of the more likely options, as would connecting Stratford to K-W/Guelph.