GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[reaperexpress]

At West Harbour, the new trackage and signalling is on property owned by CN. So you can be sure that they only do the work when they are good and ready. The station at West Habour opened in 2015...... unbelievable that it is taking this long, some blame is owed to CN but some to ML.

As for Guelph, the trackage is owned by ML now.... and they take all the blame for the inaction.

But to read ML's releases on social media and to the press - we are celebrating victory.

Ha.

- Paul

Yeah my primary complaint about Metrolinx is not that they took a long time to build the connection (we know that CN is also a limiting factor so some of the delay was out of Metrolinx's control).

My complaint is that Metrolinx was lying about construction on the connection. They claimed in 2019 that work was underway on the connection, when in fact that work wouldn't begin until three years later.

 

[turbanplanner]

They could probably save themselves some time by walking to the western end of the parking lot and peering over the edge…..still, one of the most underdeveloped sites, with all of that spin-off potential along the western perimeters for density housing with great views and (potential) access to the river valley. Mysteries, mysteries.

Whenever I think of housing by the go the failure that is “mixed use” Burlington with only a Walmart next door comes to mind

 

[just east of the creek]

Whenever I think of housing by the go the failure that is “mixed use” Burlington with only a Walmart next door comes to mind

And yet, there are existing towers next to the Fairview station, with additional towers underway. Plus plans to redevelop the old nursery site of Garden Gallery in easy walking distance to the east with further towers. And further east surrounding the Appleby Station you have major development proposals for mult-tower sites west of Appelby, and to the east of the station, another multi tower site. All of these have been covered on UT threads. And yes, legitimate questions about the pace of these developments could be asked, but economic circumstances may be playing a role there as well. All things being equal, the Fairview Street corridor will continue to densify over the next x number of years.

 

[Chris R.]

Whenever I think of housing by the go the failure that is “mixed use” Burlington with only a Walmart next door comes to mind

To be fair, Burlington didn't want the Walmart and fought it at the OMB from my recollection.

And yet, there are existing towers next to the Fairview station, with additional towers underway. Plus plans to redevelop the old nursery site of Garden Gallery in easy walking distance to the east with further towers. And further east surrounding the Appleby Station you have major development proposals for mult-tower sites west of Appelby, and to the east of the station, another multi tower site. All of these have been covered on UT threads. And yes, legitimate questions about the pace of these developments could be asked, but economic circumstances may be playing a role there as well. All things being equal, the Fairview Street corridor will continue to densify over the next x number of years.

I think my biggest criticism is that the government isn't having Metrolinx redevelop their parking lots into mixed use rental and condo towers with affordable housing mix and market housing.

It's the way many transit agencies fund their service to be better is to have a real estate arm that benefits off residential, commercial and office space while providing residents of other TOC to access the other quickly in both directions on the regional rail service.

They could easily put parking underground and charge a small fee to park in the covered parking to pay for the cost of building parking and to reduce the reliance of automobiles to transit slowly.

This would not only stop Metrolinx from having one of North America's best regional rail services despite being surrounded by seas of empty parking lots, to be a profitable organization that operated the best regional rail service and offers market and affordable social housing options close to central transit connections.

The private TOD is great, and I owned a condo in the Fairview towers at one point and they were cool, with awesome connections to GO, but without office space, good retail (not Walmart) and connections across the tracks to the eventual north community on the parking lot, GO transit won't reach it's full ridership potential.

 

[DirectionNorth]

To be fair, Burlington didn't want the Walmart and fought it at the OMB from my recollection.

I think my biggest criticism is that the government isn't having Metrolinx redevelop their parking lots into mixed use rental and condo towers with affordable housing mix and market housing.

It's the way many transit agencies fund their service to be better is to have a real estate arm that benefits off residential, commercial and office space while providing residents of other TOC to access the other quickly in both directions on the regional rail service.

They could easily put parking underground and charge a small fee to park in the covered parking to pay for the cost of building parking and to reduce the reliance of automobiles to transit slowly.

This would not only stop Metrolinx from having one of North America's best regional rail services despite being surrounded by seas of empty parking lots, to be a profitable organization that operated the best regional rail service and offers market and affordable social housing options close to central transit connections.

The private TOD is great, and I owned a condo in the Fairview towers at one point and they were cool, with awesome connections to GO, but without office space, good retail (not Walmart) and connections across the tracks to the eventual north community on the parking lot, GO transit won't reach it's full ridership potential.

I don't know if it's plausible for Metrolinx to get the shovels in the ground today. But I would like to see an accounting of parking at each station, and a plan for future use to, say, the 2050s.

The plans should include timeframes for developing, or not developing, Metrolinx-owned lots near GO stations, as well as a commitment to improve the pedestrian and cycling access in the immediate approaches at all stations. For example, here's what I drew up for Rouge Hill GO in about 2 minutes:

I would like to see this exercise (with slightly more detail) repeated at all current and future GO stations, minus the few that don't have park and rides.

 

[just east of the creek]

To be fair, Burlington didn't want the Walmart and fought it at the OMB from my recollection.

I think my biggest criticism is that the government isn't having Metrolinx redevelop their parking lots into mixed use rental and condo towers with affordable housing mix and market housing.

It's the way many transit agencies fund their service to be better is to have a real estate arm that benefits off residential, commercial and office space while providing residents of other TOC to access the other quickly in both directions on the regional rail service.

They could easily put parking underground and charge a small fee to park in the covered parking to pay for the cost of building parking and to reduce the reliance of automobiles to transit slowly.

This would not only stop Metrolinx from having one of North America's best regional rail services despite being surrounded by seas of empty parking lots, to be a profitable organization that operated the best regional rail service and offers market and affordable social housing options close to central transit connections.

The private TOD is great, and I owned a condo in the Fairview towers at one point and they were cool, with awesome connections to GO, but without office space, good retail (not Walmart) and connections across the tracks to the eventual north community on the parking lot, GO transit won't reach it's full ridership potential.

Re Walmart and Burlington. I asked around and you are quite correct. This project and project location were fought by the city and I gather with pretty mixed opinions from the general populace related to traffic (which is an issue in the area, and growing, and to be fair, also around the COSTCO outlet on Brant, just north of the QEW)

 

[turbanplanner]

To be fair, Burlington didn't want the Walmart and fought it at the OMB from my recollection.

I think my biggest criticism is that the government isn't having Metrolinx redevelop their parking lots into mixed use rental and condo towers with affordable housing mix and market housing.

It's the way many transit agencies fund their service to be better is to have a real estate arm that benefits off residential, commercial and office space while providing residents of other TOC to access the other quickly in both directions on the regional rail service.

They could easily put parking underground and charge a small fee to park in the covered parking to pay for the cost of building parking and to reduce the reliance of automobiles to transit slowly.

This would not only stop Metrolinx from having one of North America's best regional rail services despite being surrounded by seas of empty parking lots, to be a profitable organization that operated the best regional rail service and offers market and affordable social housing options close to central transit connections.

The private TOD is great, and I owned a condo in the Fairview towers at one point and they were cool, with awesome connections to GO, but without office space, good retail (not Walmart) and connections across the tracks to the eventual north community on the parking lot, GO transit won't reach it's full ridership potential.

Fair point about the city blocking things. Fairview isn't amazing but it does have the 3 keys (somewhere to go/shop, somewhere to work, and FREQUENT transit!)

I get crap here for supporting cars (gasp) but I'm ok with GO charging for parking, it just seems that you need A LOT of agencies to work together and a master plan to have a successful TOC! Even places like city place or liberty villege suck. It took almost 20 years for CP to get a school, and you still need to trek out for a job that isn't the in building retail

 

[Chris R.]

Fair point about the city blocking things. Fairview isn't amazing but it does have the 3 keys (somewhere to go/shop, somewhere to work, and FREQUENT transit!)

I get crap here for supporting cars (gasp) but I'm ok with GO charging for parking, it just seems that you need A LOT of agencies to work together and a master plan to have a successful TOC! Even places like city place or liberty villege suck. It took almost 20 years for CP to get a school, and you still need to trek out for a job that isn't the in building retail

It's my opinion that cities/province should be doing more to incentivize things they want. If they want an office tower beside GO then they should offer a 10 year discount or waiving of property taxes for the areas they want them if an building starts within the next 5 years.

As it is, we kind of just say "we want this, or not that" and then just expect the market to make bad/risky decisions based on visioning exercises. Cities especially need to do more to design planned communities with policies and tax increment schemes that actually encourage said vision, with realistic expectations, (ie, not expecting 4 storey mid-rises beside transit stations). It's fine to get input from the community, but the city should also study the profit margin for parcels before zoning them for unprofitable development only to fight developers at OLT because a proposal for taller than the zoning regs keep coming in.

 

[drum118]

July 07
Had a look at the Lakeshore East expansion at Queen and Eastern with more photos up on my site.

As it stands today, safety barriers and fencing are sitting where track 3 used to be for the expansion of the corridor for 4 tracks as well the OL line. As it been asked in the pasted when will express service return, I and others have said 2025, but 2026 is looking like when it will return as posted by earlier by someone.

Looking closely at these 2 area today and planning now now to look at a few other, I can say for sure that the existing 2 lines will be rebuilt, especially the existing bridges.

Queen St will see a wider span as well height increase. Eastern Av is also seeing the same thing, but been built for 6 lanes and wider sidewalk.

New retaining crash walls are being built to allow the area between the wall and the existing tracks to be backfill to allow the building of tracks for GO and what is plan for the OL with the OL taking over the exist 2 tracks. Could be wrong on a few things as I have not follow the OL process to date.

Eastern

Queen

 

[Bojaxs]

The issue isn't the lack of employment located close to GO stations. I imagine most people who live within walking distance of a GO station work in DT Toronto.

My issue with all the GO station residential developments is the lack of restaurants, bars, community/ park areas, grocery stores.

Metrolinx should focus on making a few stations as "employment hubs". Union, West Harbour, Brampton. The rest should be focus on lifestyle.

Doesn't make sense to try to build office towers at every station when DT Toronto towers are already seeing a dearth of office tenants.

 

[lead82]

There is no need for any office buildings by GO stations for a long time. What js needed is housing and commercial retail near GO like Grocers, or daycares or heck even a dry cleaner and a cafe that’s not a Tim’s. Many European cities with good regional rail have many stores in their stations so people can do some errands to/from the station. The era of driving to the GO station should be over. Start with key stations like Rouge and Mimico, Long Branch and others like Aurora and expand from there.

 

[Bojaxs]

There is no need for any office buildings by GO stations for a long time. What js needed is housing and commercial retail near GO like Grocers, or daycares or heck even a dry cleaner and a cafe that’s not a Tim’s. Many European cities with good regional rail have many stores in their stations so people can do some errands to/from the station. The era of driving to the GO station should be over. Start with key stations like Rouge and Mimico, Long Branch and others like Aurora and expand from there.

Why don't hotel chains look at constructing properties near GO stations?

Take the UP express to Union and then the GO train to your hotel.

Easy access to downtown without staying in downtown.

 

[just east of the creek]

There is no need for any office buildings by GO stations for a long time. What js needed is housing and commercial retail near GO like Grocers, or daycares or heck even a dry cleaner and a cafe that’s not a Tim’s. Many European cities with good regional rail have many stores in their stations so people can do some errands to/from the station. The era of driving to the GO station should be over. Start with key stations like Rouge and Mimico, Long Branch and others like Aurora and expand from there.

I would slightly disagree with you on the parking aspect. Often, accessing the Fairview GO station requires a car, there is no public transit north of the 407 in Burlington. Yes I could drive to the nearest bus stop, but where to park? I could ride my bike but that is a longish ride -although downhill going to the station. Even the GO Bus stops along the 407 include a parking function. My view would be that depending on location, there may be a higher of lower need for a parking. Garage parking, as opposed to acres of only surface parking lots. Fairview or Bloomington, or Oshawa would differ from Long Branch, Mimico, certainly a Parkside Station ( if built) ,

But I would also agree that many GO stations could be more cleverly integrated into their communities. Again, Fairview station on the south side , although with a Walmart next door, and good transit outside, and housing there and coming, could be a developing example, but sense of community or neighborhoods is probably not there yet. Fairview is still, in the main, a commercial core. But eliminate the surface parking on the Fairview side of the line, the south side, redevelop that portion of the property, and restrict parking to the northern side, which is comprised of an existing enormous surface lot, plus a parking garage, and flanked by employment lands. Also add the redevelopment of the neighbouring GM dealer on Fairview ( this can only be a matter of time) and you have more opportunities to create, plus you then link to the Garden Gallery development etc. etc.

Oakville station would also be a good test case. With all the development to come for ‘mid-town’ Oakville, almost surrounding the site. What vision will be employed to redevelop the very large parking landscape of this GO/VIA station?

I have a good friend in the planning industry and we argue about planning concepts all the time, usually a beer and dinner are involved, but it is all good.

 

[drum118]

I would slightly disagree with you on the parking aspect. Often, accessing the Fairview GO station requires a car, there is no public transit north of the 407 in Burlington. Yes I could drive to the nearest bus stop, but where to park? I could ride my bike but that is a longish ride -although downhill going to the station. Even the GO Bus stops along the 407 include a parking function. My view would be that depending on location, there may be a higher of lower need for a parking. Garage parking, as opposed to acres of only surface parking lots. Fairview or Bloomington, or Oshawa would differ from Long Branch, Mimico, certainly a Parkside Station ( if built) ,

But I would also agree that many GO stations could be more cleverly integrated into their communities. Again, Fairview station on the south side , although with a Walmart next door, and good transit outside, and housing there and coming, could be a developing example, but sense of community or neighborhoods is probably not there yet. Fairview is still, in the main, a commercial core. But eliminate the surface parking on the Fairview side of the line, the south side, redevelop that portion of the property, and restrict parking to the northern side, which is comprised of an existing enormous surface lot, plus a parking garage, and flanked by employment lands. Also add the redevelopment of the neighbouring GM dealer on Fairview ( this can only be a matter of time) and you have more opportunities to create, plus you then link to the Garden Gallery development etc. etc.

Oakville station would also be a good test case. With all the development to come for ‘mid-town’ Oakville, almost surrounding the site. What vision will be employed to redevelop the very large parking landscape of this GO/VIA station?

I have a good friend in the planning industry and we argue about planning concepts all the time, usually a beer and dinner are involved, but it is all good.

There was a plan for the existing GO/VIA station over a decade or so ago with GO staying where it currently is or moving to the eastside of Trafalgar and no idea what happen to it. The land north of the station was also part of it up to the QEW. NO Frills had a large store across from the GO Station and close it about 10 years ago.

Burlington is not hot when it comes to transit when I used to go to it for a monthly meeting to the point I had a 50/50 chance getting the route 10 bus if my train was later arriving. Quality of service has pickup some what since I stop doing meetings there, but it fail to service areas that needs bus service, but the density and demand is not there to do it. Oakville is better than Burlington, but quality of service not there in many places to get folks from their home to/from a GO station. It also applies to other GO stations in the GTA. Car is the mold for people using GO to the station.

 

[just east of the creek]

Drum, with due respect, that No Frills, previously a Dominion Store, now an Asian Grocery (in part) is a hike from the train, it’s part of the redeveloped Home Depot plaza, with the remnants of that mall dating to the 50’s. So the other side of Cross Ave, closer to the QEW. And I believe part of redevelopment planning. As for the GO station moving to the east side of Trafalgar, you are quite right, and I remember seeing information on that. It fizzled for some reason, and with the addition of the parking garage and the operations building, plus the MidTown planning going on, I believe the idea is truly been vanquished.

Public transit in Halton is always going to be a compromise on service with the prevailing densities. We can hope for increasing densities along major transit routes, such as routes 10/1/2 in Burlington, that would then justify service improvements. But running a bus up and down Guelph Line, past the 408 to Lowville or Kilbride makes little or no sense .