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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

sche

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Last time I showed someone a Lakeshore West timetable it blew their mind. They had no idea that there were 64 trains per day, they thought it was around 5 per day. If we can get the average person to think there are trains every 15 minutes, that's a massive improvement.
^^This! Most people (especially those not along the Lakeshore line) still think GO is a peak-only commuter service and most will not even think about using GO to travel downtown (or anywhere else for that matter) unless it's a 9-5 commute. Metrolinx really needs to stop with their empty "Transit is happening" advertisements and start advertising the speed and frequency of the service that already exists.
 

Northern Light

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^^This! Most people (especially those not along the Lakeshore line) still think GO is a peak-only commuter service and most will not even think about using GO to travel downtown (or anywhere else for that matter) unless it's a 9-5 commute. Metrolinx really needs to stop with their empty "Transit is happening" advertisements and start advertising the speed and frequency of the service that already exists.

Agree *** w/one caveat, once full or near-full pre-pandemic service is restored.

There's no point in advertising the current sub-par offering.
 

ARG1

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Agree *** w/one caveat, once full or near-full pre-pandemic service is restored.

There's no point in advertising the current sub-par offering.
Agree *** w/one caveat, wouldn't it make sense to try and advertise what they have in order to convince the higherups to restore service faster?

Let's consider how long it took us to get away from these "Historic Low Demands".
 

Northern Light

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Agree *** w/one caveat, wouldn't it make sense to try and advertise what they have in order to convince the higherups to restore service faster?

Let's consider how long it took us to get away from these "Historic Low Demands".

That really depends on whether you believe further service improvement is likely in the near-term (I certainly hope so); and whether you believe existing service, well below what riders were used to pre-pandemic are a material draw.

I would argue they are not.

Therefore better to get another meaningful round of service improvement reinstated, ASAP, then advertise a level you will stick with for awhile, putting a better offering in the window than is currently the case.

I don't think previous GO riders are taking a pass on the service because they don't know it exists, they are taking a pass because the current service is abysmal; and because they may still have some concerns around Covid and/or are spending less time commuting in general.

Ads really don't impact that at all, except to say, service is back to what you remember.

The real utility in Ads though will be reaching new riders, that requires a very large campaign, and so one you don't want to date by or make less effective by advertising sub-par service.
 

crs1026

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I don't think previous GO riders are taking a pass on the service because they don't know it exists, they are taking a pass because the current service is abysmal; and because they may still have some concerns around Covid and/or are spending less time commuting in general.

I was surprised by the claim that people don’t generally know what GO’s service offering is. My impression is that most people in the LSE-LSW catchment know quite well that GO offers all-day service on this line. If they don’t use it themselves, they are in the habit of picking up or dropping off friends and family at the GO at all hours of the day, And perhaps using themselves on special occasions, such as their annual trip to the CNE or to see the Jays. And a great many who are closer to other GO lines eg Milton Kitchener may drive to Aldershot or Oakville because they are confident that there is all day service on that line whereas their own line is peak only.
For LSE-LSW, the ability to arrive and board without looking up the train times is undoubtedly a selling feature, but even at current headways there a lot of people who don’t mind the wait…. at 30 minutes, anyways.
I do recall a point earlier in the pandemic where things had started to open up, but evening LSW service out of downtown was nominally hourly but after the shows/concerts ended was effectively a 90 minute wait. Similarly, service after the first Jays game I attended at the start of this year’s season was substandard. But overall we are back to the old normal, even if we aren’t at 15 minute headways yet. This service can be constructively promoted as what it is.
The situation on GO’s other supposedly all day lines is quite the reverse. The problem is that with ongoing construction, GO is not yet in a position to deliver a proper, consistent, uniform, 7 day all-day service envelope. This is regrettable, but we need the shovels to finish their work before GO can deliver.
I absolutely agree that GO should be promoting the service it is offering today, and not the service it may be offering some years out. Talking about what you are building puts the impression in peoples’ minds that nothing is there yet, so they assume there is no point in riding today. ML loves to self-aggrandize over the future, but this is costing them riders (and people are a lot smarter about ignoring puffery than ML thinks).
There is a pattern of hourly trains today on three routes that is mostly useful and can be marketed productively, if GO would stop selling the dinner steak and talk about what’s on the table for lunch.
Lastly, the focus heeds to be on all day service offering and not worry about peak. Peak ridership will return when the necessity of commuting for employment or education builds. GO should manage peak train lengths and headways to demonstrate that seats are available, but this is not the growth market.

- Paul
 
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emphur

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Kitchener Line construction progress, photos in order heading east.

Since the announcement of the start of construction on the double tracked sections between Kitchener and Guelph there's been a lot of construction prep the last month with terrain leveling and tree clearing.

PXL_20220520_120859348.jpg


Work at Guelph station is ramping up as well, this is also new within the past few months. Also storage of construction material borrowing some park space.


PXL_20220429_235522356.jpg


This last one has me a little puzzled, lots of work going on at Rockwood, which is also new this month. The work seems to be pretty rough on the ravine, it's a pretty sensitive area.

PXL_20220520_122735005.jpg
PXL_20220520_122736224.jpg
 

crs1026

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^ Looks like they are double tracking this bridge?

It's possible.... but we would have heard more about this if that's the case. It's a pretty big bridge. In the short term, one would build double track or sidings at the ends of the bridge not over it.

The last blurb from ML only mentioned building a track for MOW equipment storage at Rockwood but not a siding or double track in this area. The logical place for a storage track would be on the west side of town, where the old Rock Cut siding is/was.

My theory would be simply giving access so they can do maintenance work on the existing piers. And even for that it's a pretty big installation.

- Paul
 

ShonTron

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They are really grasping to define the benefit. "One step closer to helping improve customer experience at the station." They knocked down a neighbourhood and paved it over, and the experience is one of walking in the elements, and crossing a street at the far northeast corner of the lot.

That parking lot only has a couple of years before Rogers starts building its new Brampton office campus.
 

ARG1

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I was surprised by the claim that people don’t generally know what GO’s service offering is. My impression is that most people in the LSE-LSW catchment know quite well that GO offers all-day service on this line. If they don’t use it themselves, they are in the habit of picking up or dropping off friends and family at the GO at all hours of the day, And perhaps using themselves on special occasions, such as their annual trip to the CNE or to see the Jays. And a great many who are closer to other GO lines eg Milton Kitchener may drive to Aldershot or Oakville because they are confident that there is all day service on that line whereas their own line is peak only.
For LSE-LSW, the ability to arrive and board without looking up the train times is undoubtedly a selling feature, but even at current headways there a lot of people who don’t mind the wait…. at 30 minutes, anyways.
I do recall a point earlier in the pandemic where things had started to open up, but evening LSW service out of downtown was nominally hourly but after the shows/concerts ended was effectively a 90 minute wait. Similarly, service after the first Jays game I attended at the start of this year’s season was substandard. But overall we are back to the old normal, even if we aren’t at 15 minute headways yet. This service can be constructively promoted as what it is.
The situation on GO’s other supposedly all day lines is quite the reverse. The problem is that with ongoing construction, GO is not yet in a position to deliver a proper, consistent, uniform, 7 day all-day service envelope. This is regrettable, but we need the shovels to finish their work before GO can deliver.
I absolutely agree that GO should be promoting the service it is offering today, and not the service it may be offering some years out. Talking about what you are building puts the impression in peoples’ minds that nothing is there yet, so they assume there is no point in riding today. ML loves to self-aggrandize over the future, but this is costing them riders (and people are a lot smarter about ignoring puffery than ML thinks).
There is a pattern of hourly trains today on three routes that is mostly useful and can be marketed productively, if GO would stop selling the dinner steak and talk about what’s on the table for lunch.
Lastly, the focus heeds to be on all day service offering and not worry about peak. Peak ridership will return when the necessity of commuting for employment or education builds. GO should manage peak train lengths and headways to demonstrate that seats are available, but this is not the growth market.

- Paul
I'm speaking from what I've seen from people who live in York Region. Even those who live right next to Maple or Rutherford generally don't know about the service that is offered on the line, and still end up driving all the way to Highway 407 and paying for the parking. Lakeshore East and West has the advantage of having all day service basically since the beginning of their existence so locals have accustomed to such a service existing. Meanwhile the Barrie and Stouffville Lines haven't had all day service until 2017, so a lot of people still see them as "the train my husband takes to work".
 

Allandale25

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They are really grasping to define the benefit. "One step closer to helping improve customer experience at the station." They knocked down a neighbourhood and paved it over, and the experience is one of walking in the elements, and crossing a street at the far northeast corner of the lot.

The context though is that this was meant to be replacement parking for the construction of the new TMU (aka Ryerson) campus that was going to be on the parking lot on the north side of the tracks, just west of the historic station building. So "they" were likely directed to knock down the neighbourhood for parking by a different ministry.

1653065875504.png
 

smallspy

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This last one has me a little puzzled, lots of work going on at Rockwood, which is also new this month. The work seems to be pretty rough on the ravine, it's a pretty sensitive area.

View attachment 401471View attachment 401470
That bridge is scheduled to get some major work this summer, including a full structure replacement.

It will remain as a single-track, although it's not clear to me if the work also includes widening the abutments and piers for a future second track.

Dan
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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Milton doesn’t and won’t have all day train service at any point in the foreseeable future.

15 minutes or better would be great to advertise if it was actually achieved/achievable. People don’t like buses as much as trains. And the buses on the Milton line are painfully slow when they make all stops.
 

asher__jo

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Given the federal government committed to fund this, last year, what do you mean by foreseeable future?

I'd be surprised if it wasn't happening in the 2030s.
It definitely will, CP will drag their heels of course. There is very strong political consensus on multiple levels of government to improve service on a line that functions as close as Mississauga will ever get to a Metro/subway line.
 

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