GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[robmausser]

So the train past Oshawa will be smaller? But it says people will stay seated during the entire ride meaning they are going to couple the trains together to get to Union?

I wonder what rolling stock they got since we have not seen a tender go out for it.

The plan for all of the RER lines is to have two types of service, one express and one local, and sometimes two types of trains to serve that need.

For some lines that are fully electrified, like Stouffville and Barrie, that will probably just be the same type of bi-level EMU train running in the RER section, and the express service out to Barrie etc. For Kitchener, because of the CN portion, that will probably be EMU trains for the RER section, and dual mode locomotives pulling the existing bilevel GO cars out to Kitchener. The same goes for Lakeshore West past Aldershot.

So the precedent to use two different types of trains on one line will already be set. And those trains that go to the outer edges of the network will bypass most RER stations, running express to union.

With that precedent in mind, a similar service to Bowmanville would probably be set. With a special train, perhaps a dual mode single level D/EMU running from Bowmanville to Pickering GO (the current terminus of the express services), and then express to Union.

This would be no different than the way all the other GO RER lines will operate, and the use of a different rolling stock to serve this area will be no different than some of the other RER lines as well.

The only difference will be the type of rolling stock used, specific to meet the needs of this line.

 

[Bordercollie]

So what standard EMU rolling stock exists in North America today? There is the Arrow cars and and multilevel cars from Bombardier. Anything else?

 

[Coolstar]

So what standard EMU rolling stock exists in North America today? There is the Arrow cars and and multilevel cars from Bombardier. Anything else?

There's the Silverliner V for Philadelphia's Regional Rail and Denver's Regional Rail and the soon to be Stadler KISS in San Francisco for CalTrain. (Not my Photos.)

 

[Bordercollie]

There's the Silverliner V for Philadelphia's Regional Rail and Denver's Regional Rail and the soon to be Stadler KISS in San Francisco for CalTrain. (Not my Photos.)

View attachment 298525
View attachment 298526

Do those cars use CEM technology?

 

[Allandale25]

Video of the townhall. The last response to a question (in the last 5 min) provides some insight on the 401 bridge. It sounds like it will have two tracks, be to the west of the existing CP bridge, and then crossover using a diamond to head east.

Virtual Townhall On Go Train Expansion

MPP Lindsey Park, Member of Provincial Parliament for Durham, will be joined by Metrolinx President & CEO Phil Verster. It will be an opportunity for you to hear directly from Metrolinx on the Bowmanville GO Train Expansion Project.

rogerstv.com

 

[robmausser]

So what standard EMU rolling stock exists in North America today? There is the Arrow cars and and multilevel cars from Bombardier. Anything else?

Like Caltrain, the rolling stock will probably be non-FRA compliant with an exception from Transport Canada, since the EMU's will only travel on Metrolinx tracks, and never CN or CP tracks.

The extension out to Bowmanville will be a single Metrolinx track in the CP corridor, not using the CP mainline.

Like what was already done for Pickering > Oshawa on the CN lands.

 

[rbt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1358439371419119616

I wonder how true this is, because that's an enormous difference in cost. Might not be a fair comparison as there is probably more work involved such as the grade separations at Finch-Kennedy. Still, 50-100x is a crazy amount.

6 Million € in Milan doesn't cover the cost of the land for a station. So the cost estimates presented in these tweets are clearly not the full cost for urban infill stations. Building a basic GO station (like York University Station) on pre-owned land with no pedestrian tunnels, bridges, or parking would be in the $3M CAD range.

That said, some infill stations like St. Clair on Barrie line have substantial roadwork projects attached to them to make access to the station practical.

 

[afransen]

Maybe the problem is that we spend $100M on parking stations with a train boarding amenity.

 

[NY99]

Maybe the problem is that we spend $100M on parking stations with a train boarding amenity.

but that doesn’t apply to these new infill stations... something else is at play here, clearly.

 

[allengeorge]

but that doesn’t apply to these new infill stations... something else is at play here, clearly.

Don’t some of these new infill stations include significant road realignments etc? If that’s right, I wonder if part of the reason stations cost more than expected is that we lump so many add-on projects that it increases the cost of this ‘transit’ project.

 

[rbt]

I guess another way of asking this question is whether these stations are overly built and wasteful in that way.

They are far more than necessary for a walk-in railway station; but I think the we will be thankful for the streamlined bus integration about 10 minutes after Metrolinx implements reasonable fare integration.

Intermodal integration is one of the things that made TTC effective and efficient, despite the fact that no TTC subway station really needed a $50M bus loop attached.

 

[afransen]

but that doesn’t apply to these new infill stations... something else is at play here, clearly.

Huh? Don't most of them have extensive surface parking (and land acquisition costs) or parking structures ($20k-$40k/spot)? The new Milton station is planned to have one. Bloomington has a 760 car (aka $30M) parking structure.

 

[allengeorge]

If we look at this UT article, the scope of work for each Smarttrack station seems much, much higher than the Italian infill station referenced above:

https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2021/02/toronto-and-ontario-advance-smarttrack-station-plan. I see:

* Bridge rebuilds
* Road widenings and new roads
* Bus loops
* New intersections
* Elevators

I’ve no idea whether the price per station is reasonable, but I think this may be an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

There's the Silverliner V for Philadelphia's Regional Rail and Denver's Regional Rail and the soon to be Stadler KISS in San Francisco for CalTrain. (Not my Photos.)

View attachment 298525

God that's an ugly rollingstock. I don't get why NA (in particular U.S. transit agencies) put so little regard in the aesthetics of their EMU/DMUs. I know it ultimately serves the same purpose, but perhaps having a nice European/Asian rollingstock design might actually generate more ridership?

 

[robmausser]

God that's an ugly rollingstock. I don't get why NA (in particular U.S. transit agencies) put so little regard in the aesthetics of their EMU/DMUs. I know it ultimately serves the same purpose, but perhaps having a nice European/Asian rollingstock design might actually generate more ridership?

Its about Transport Canada regulations. Asia/European rolling stock is not allowed on mainline tracks here, even if those tracks are rarely if ever used by freight. That includes GO tracks. Hence why the UPX DMU is so big and bulky, it has to be built to FRA/Transport Canada standards to survive a crash with a freight train.

Exceptions are allowed but they are very specific and generally only on spur/branch lines like what the O-Train in Ottawa uses, or the ION LRT. Freight is only allowed at night while the LRTs and DMUs are sleeping.

Transport Canada is still concerned with EMU's sharing track with VIA rail and large bi level GO trains. They usually want complete separation from them, never allowing them to operate on the tracks at the same time.

So most agencies just end up complying with the TC/FRA regulations, its just easier, and you end up with this big bulky ugly super heavy and slower trains.