GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[raptor]

Are we, the public, going to see detailed plans before construction starts? Is the new Metrolinx construction model to have ZERO public input?

The less public input, the quicker things get done.

 

[KevinR]

The less public input, the quicker things get done.

True, but it also means less accountability. One example is they get to show us one picture of a very beautiful station but is there any evidence that this is what they are planning to build?

What prevents Metrolinx from promising that architectural masterpiece and delivering a shed? At this point, nothing.

 

[raptor]

True, but it also means less accountability. One example is they get to show us one picture of a very beautiful station but is there any evidence that this is what they are planning to build?

What prevents Metrolinx from promising that architectural masterpiece and delivering a shed? At this point, nothing.

It's a private development with private funds. Why would they be accountable to the general public? I'm referring to the Woodbine station of course.

 

[KevinR]

It's a private development with private funds. Why would they be accountable to the general public? I'm referring to the Woodbine station of course.

Because it’s a public service. The idea that because private money is funding it, there’s no public input or accountability, is...troubling.

At the end of the day, this station has to serve a PUBLIC transit need. If it’s built in a way that doesn’t serve the public good, what’s the point? If Metrolinx believes that public input hinders their expansion efforts, one would assume they should be trying to scaled back public input on ALL projects, not just the privately funded projects.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Are we, the public, going to see detailed plans before construction starts? Is the new Metrolinx construction model to have ZERO public input?

The less public input, the quicker things get done.

True, but it also means less accountability. One example is they get to show us one picture of a very beautiful station but is there any evidence that this is what they are planning to build?

What prevents Metrolinx from promising that architectural masterpiece and delivering a shed? At this point, nothing.

It's a private development with private funds. Why would they be accountable to the general public? I'm referring to the Woodbine station of course.

Because it’s a public service. The idea that because private money is funding it, there’s no public input or accountability, is...troubling.

At the end of the day, this station has to serve a PUBLIC transit need. If it’s built in a way that doesn’t serve the public good, what’s the point? If Metrolinx believes that public input hinders their expansion efforts, one would assume they should be trying to scaled back public input on ALL projects, not just the privately funded projects.

Accountability is big, but consultation can add value too. A good example is accessibility. Having public input can prevent a station design that is not convenient or a hindrance for those living with a disability. I know us on UT like to grind the axe with NIMBY types, but there are many cases of good and constructive input too.

 

[raptor]

Because it’s a public service. The idea that because private money is funding it, there’s no public input or accountability, is...troubling.

At the end of the day, this station has to serve a PUBLIC transit need. If it’s built in a way that doesn’t serve the public good, what’s the point? If Metrolinx believes that public input hinders their expansion efforts, one would assume they should be trying to scaled back public input on ALL projects, not just the privately funded projects.

What does 'accountability' mean to you? getting someone laid off? getting headlines at newspapers?

 

[robmausser]

Given that this will be replacing Etobicoke North station its a bit of a stretch to call it a "NEW" station. More like a relocation.

False news?

So when you sell your car and buy another its not a new car? I think it still counts. Even though id rather see Etobicoke North moved south rather than demo'd. There are a bunch of high rise and housing there. The current location is in the middle of fuck all.

 

[KevinR]

What does 'accountability' mean to you? getting someone laid off? getting headlines at newspapers?

It means having insight and influence on the project BEFORE final decisions are made. A perfect example was stated above when accessibility was mentioned by someone else on the thread. Often times public consultations create better results, especially in the accessibility space. The purpose of public accountability isn't to assign blame but to allow for public input, where appropriate. Right now, as it stands, the when it comes to the station at Woodbine & Hwy 27, the public is just going to get what it gets. I'm not sure that'll lead to the best outcome.

 

[cplchanb]

hopefully they will actually incorporate the platforms inside this monstrosity. It would be a huge shame if you have this gigantic structure only to have riders still getting exposed to the elements when getting on/off the train

 

[Neutrino]

It would be good to get as much TOD around this station as possible.

 

[ShonTron]

Accountability is big, but consultation can add value too. A good example is accessibility. Having public input can prevent a station design that is not convenient or a hindrance for those living with a disability. I know us on UT like to grind the axe with NIMBY types, but there are many cases of good and constructive input too.

The current iteration of UP Express provides most of what the Weston community demanded: a stop in Weston (instead of trains racing through every 15 minutes without stopping), clean trains (Tier 4 diesel, rather than refurbished 1950s-era RDCs), affordable fares, and continued access across the corridor (which was not originally planned.) There were NIMBY elements, but the residents had many legitimate demands when the original federal project with SNC-Lavalin as both the proponent and the EA consultants was proposed.

The community has insights such as travel patterns and desire lines, local concerns and accessibility. Plans are often tweaked for the better even for smaller projects. I hope there are some PICs before final drawings are made and construction begins.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

The current iteration of UP Express provides most of what the Weston community demanded: a stop in Weston (instead of trains racing through every 15 minutes without stopping), clean trains (Tier 4 diesel, rather than refurbished 1950s-era RDCs), affordable fares, and continued access across the corridor (which was not originally planned.) There were NIMBY elements, but the residents had many legitimate demands when the original federal project with SNC-Lavalin as both the proponent and the EA consultants was proposed.

The community has insights such as travel patterns and desire lines, local concerns and accessibility. Plans are often tweaked for the better even for smaller projects. I hope there are some PICs before final drawings are made and construction begins.

Mostly agreed. While I don't think a stop was warranted, Tier 4 trains were a reasonable demand, and the tunnel to maintain access was essential to ensure the already segregated community wasn't further severed.

 

[ShonTron]

Mostly agreed. While I don't think a stop was warranted, Tier 4 trains were a reasonable demand, and the tunnel to maintain access was essential to ensure the already segregated community wasn't further severed.

I think the problem (and is still a problem) is that the infrastructure was built for UP Express, and not so much for GO/VIA. GO service still isn't that great. The UP Express service with GO fares for local trips provides the local service for Weston that GO should be doing.

 

[steveintoronto]

I think the problem (and is still a problem) is that the infrastructure was built for UP Express, and not so much for GO/VIA. GO service still isn't that great. The UP Express service with GO fares for local trips provides the local service for Weston that GO should be doing.

This is a point that continues to vex me. Let's put aside the assumption that it's orthodox GO's responsibility to serve Bramalea to Union. And let's repurpose UPX to serve that corridor, as well as the Airport Link. UPX runs on a fifteen minute headway. Surely! (And considering that Japan, Germany, Paris RER, Crossrail et al can do 2.5 min headways and theoretically less than 2), then why isn't every 7.5 min with the addition of forward compatible trainsets (DEMUs for now) being considered for that corridor? Apart from anything involving the latest flyover fashion craze from the Verster Collection of Fine Haberdashery. UPX alone could do Bramalea to Union with perhaps the addition of a GO berthing platform at Union proper, reserve the 'airport custom' for the present terminus.

I've just gotten in after walking down that corridor and adjacent from St Clair to Bloor including the Toronto West Railpath, and have a continuously kinked neck from looking askance and wondering "WTF of a waste of corridor!" Even at two tracks (which is pretty much what's assigned to UPX pathings) massively more can be done, and all by leaving the Diesel hauled DDs to run as they are, almost all on the dedicated remaining third track, albeit that too must be revisited.

The lowest hanging fruit by far is UPX. Addendum: And maximizing that reach with more Route 30 like expresses that meet and wait for trains.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

This is a point that continues to vex me. Let's put aside the assumption that it's orthodox GO's responsibility to serve Bramalea to Union. And let's repurpose UPX to serve that corridor, as well as the Airport Link. UPX runs on a fifteen minute headway. Surely! (And considering that Japan, Germany, Paris RER, Crossrail et al can do 2.5 min headways and theoretically less than 2), then why isn't every 7.5 min with the addition of forward compatible trainsets (DEMUs for now) being considered for that corridor? Apart from anything involving the latest flyover fashion craze from the Verster Collection of Fine Haberdashery.

I've just gotten in after walking down that corridor and adjacent from St Clair to Bloor including the Toronto West Railpath, and have a continuously kinked neck from looking askance and wondering "WTF of a waste of corridor!".

UT elders know very well this is because the corridor was never fully completed in multiple spots; full buildout calls for 2 tracks dedicated for each line/service where it uses the corridor (2 Kitchener, + 2 UPX east of the 427, + 2 Milton south of Dupont, + 2 Barrie east of Lansdowne). For what was completed, priority was given to UPX's 15 minute headways, while orthodox GO (what a great term @steveintoronto) continued to suffer with heavy trains and shit headways. It was rushed to this state to get 'er done for the Pan Am Games, and time and money was not timely allocated to finishing the job. Then Metrolinx bungled the pricing, and in response to the outcry, UPX became unorthodox GO service. We never got to the final vision of good headways for orthodox GO, let alone better rolling stock or electrification.

I trying to not rant and keep things succinct, just saying we're here because governments cheaped out and didn't want to complete the job. #torontotransit