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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

April 07
More up on site
Really not much to write home about these project since my last visit
Metrolinx Torbram Rd Kitchener Corridor Grade Separation For 4 Tracks
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Torbram Rd CN Grade Separation For 4 Tracks
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I have been reading a lot of old Toronto newspapers from the 50's and 60's lately. Onr theme that hits one between the eyes is just how frequent auto-train collisions were back in the days when most crossings lacked lights and gates, and there were fewer grade crossings. It was literally an 'every day' ocurrence.
According to Operation Lifesaver, there are now about 20+ train-people fatalities a year in Ontario. In 1959, the number was 69.
When the CN Halton-York bypass was planned in 1958-1959, onr of the bigger areas of concern by municipalities, and one of the bigger issues for CN, was how many crossings would be grade separated - it was a huge cost variable in the project.
My point is, while it seems like slow progress, we are getting closer to eliminating grade crossings altogether in urban areas and that is a huge step forward.
- Paul
 
smallspy said:
That's not the problem.

CN owns the track from just east of Bramalea to west of Georgetown and dispatches it. Therefore, any improvements in service have to be checked with and cleared by them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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So this on Metrolinx then imo. They have to meet the conditions and apparently have not done so.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So this on Metrolinx then imo. They have to meet the conditions and apparently have not done so.
Click to expand...
It may be "on ML" but since none of us know what conditions CN is looking to impose to allow additional service I am not sure how you/we/I can say that.

What I have said in the past, and will repeat now, is that it seems to be a very poor negotiating strategy to take a line...most of it CN has no/little use for anymore and agree to pay hundreds of millons of taxpayer dollars for those parts that CN wants to sell but allow them to keep the bit in the middle...the bit that they have a very large use for and very little incentive to sell. To do that is akin to playing poker but once you see that you have 3 aces in your hand volunteering to hand them over the table to your counterpart.

All the power in this negotiation sits with CN......and it should be no surprise that it is hard for them to reach an agreement....they got the money they wanted (while retaining running rights even on those sections they sold) and now have ML held for ransom because the section with the most riders on the line....the middle bit (without which the eastern and western portions have very little value) remain firmly in their control.

So, no, we do not know what CN is demanding of ML to allow more trains on more days for more hours....but it is very sad that we got to this point in the first place.

It is like Metrolinx bought a house.....but left the driveway and walkway in the hands of the previous owner....who parked a truck on them!
 
TOareaFan said:
It is like Metrolinx bought a house.....but left the driveway and walkway in the hands of the previous owner....who parked a truck on them!
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And paid to widen the driveway to make it wide enough to park the truck on, based on the vendor's promise that the driveway would be shared "equitably".

ML apparently paid to widen the Credit River bridge, the single track section through Brampton, and the trackage from Peel to Bramalea without securing rights to make full use of these additions. And they arranged the new interlockings in such a way that CN controls how the new track is operated.

A fairly obvious modification to the trackage at Halwest would allow GO to have exclusive use of the stub-end platform track at Bramalea without treading on CN trackage. Three new crossovers - one at Peel, and one at Brampton, one at Georgetown - would put CN's track back to the way it was before GO came on the scene. Go takes exclusive use of the Track 3 Halwest to Peel, the south track through Brampton, the south track over the Credit, and completes the third span of the Credit bridge, tieing it into Track 3 at either end. That would give GO a single track with unfettered use as far as Georgetown plus a passing siding at the Credit River. The only fly in the ointment would be crossing over to the north side for acces to the GO yard and the Guelph Sub. Frankly, CN does not have enough freight trains on the line for that to create more than short periods of delay even if GO had no rights over freights at that crossover.

CN would likely refuse, but that court case would probably have a better chance of success than say cancelling an LRT procurement, and ML has no hesitation to that one. Far, far cheaper than building a bypass.

Just spitballing.

- Paul
 
TOareaFan said:
So, no, we do not know what CN is demanding of ML to allow more trains on more days for more hours....but it is very sad that we got to this point in the first place.
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I guess going forward the question for the Kitchener Line is what kind of pressure the government will feel to get a deal, and how much it will cost, before the election. They've talked about some pretty clear goals for service levels for 2024 so at some point, a deal will have to be struck, or a different government will come to power and be more cautions, or strike the deal. As discussed, there's been offpeak service commitments as well. Either this government strikes that deal before the election, or it'll be up to the next. There's also the risk it becomes an election issue if a deal isn't made.
 
crs1026 said:
A fairly obvious modification to the trackage at Halwest would allow GO to have exclusive use of the stub-end platform track at Bramalea without treading on CN trackage. - Paul
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But even with those small modification, given where the property boundaries line and what CN physically owns, would they even allow any GO track to come anywhere near theirs? Lakeshore near Pickering is an example I'm thinking of. In that case, the corridor is much wider. I assume that the two tracks closest to the 401 are GO/Metrolinx property and the three tracks to the north are CN property? I'm certainly not a property expert. The idea of GO building tracks away/around/separated from CN's at Bramalea is intriguing, I'm just curious if the ownership even allows for it.
 
Allandale25 said:
I guess going forward the question for the Kitchener Line is what kind of pressure the government will feel to get a deal, and how much it will cost, before the election. They've talked about some pretty clear goals for service levels for 2024 so at some point, a deal will have to be struck,
Click to expand...

Forget about 2024.....in their April 2016 budget document they promised pretty significant service improvements to be in place prior to March 31, 2017.....and those promises were made knowing exactly where they were in negotiations...and the budget page did not place any conditions or caveats about the CN negotiations ( http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2016/bk2.html ). Obviously that date has passed.
 
Allandale25 said:
But even with those small modification, given where the property boundaries line and what CN physically owns, would they even allow any GO track to come anywhere near theirs? Lakeshore near Pickering is an example I'm thinking of. In that case, the corridor is much wider. I assume that the two tracks closest to the 401 are GO/Metrolinx property and the three tracks to the north are CN property? I'm certainly not a property expert. The idea of GO building tracks away/around/separated from CN's at Bramalea is intriguing, I'm just curious if the ownership even allows for it.
Click to expand...

It's in no way an optimal solution, and I wasn't necessarily convincing myself it would work, but it would form the basis for a joint use agreement short of exchanging title to any land. It was more in the spirit of how one might increase the leverage on CN to get past whatever objections they have - which seem a little petty in the context of hourly night and weekend service.

Certainly it would be hard for CN to maintain the high ground on why it needs to protect its routings when a) they didn't pay for the track and b) they don't have all that many trains on the line in a 24 hour period.

- Paul
 
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