GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[TOareaFan]

I wonder, if Canpa and the Milton corridor do get upgraded, I wouldn't mind seeing some local Lakeshore trains use that permanently instead of continuing along LSW via Mimico and Exhibition. I've had to do quite a few trips where I've had to back-track from Keele or Dufferin to Union to catch the LSW train. Having the occasional LSW train intersect the Bloor-Danforth line at Kipling and Dundas West would be a welcome connection for anyone bound for the west side of Toronto. Not to mention it would make it much easier to access Pearson for LSW passengers.

For a service pattern, have the Oakville and out trains run express to Union after Oakville via LSW, but have some local trains that start at Oakville run via Canpa and Galt.

Isn't a major issue in preventing full service on the non-lakeshore lines track capacity? So your suggestion to use some of the track capacity to have the occasional LSW train to divert to make it more convenient for some people some times is just going to make that worse...no?

 

[gweed123]

Isn't a major issue in preventing full service on the non-lakeshore lines track capacity? So your suggestion to use some of the track capacity to have the occasional LSW train to divert to make it more convenient for some people some times is just going to make that worse...no?

Yes, which is why I prefaced my comment with "if Canpa and the Milton corridor do get upgraded". Naturally, this would be after the introduction of AD2W on the Galt sub, or at least the infrastructure required to support AD2W on the inner portion of the corridor. It's really only the section from Canpa to GTS that would need to be upgraded for this to work. And obviously the Canpa as well, but that doesn't have the same kind of freight traffic that the Galt sub does, so that work can be done in relative isolation (and Metrolinx now owns it, unlike Galt).

 

[robmausser]

Keeping in mind that this is a detour for Lakeshore West passengers, what is the overall goal of letting people hop onto the Bloor subway?

Perhaps its their way of saying "look, I know this detour might suck and inconvenience, you, we are doing everything we possibly can to help, on the off chance getting off at Kipling helps your commute."

This is like when there are shutdowns on the TTC you are allowed to ride the GO Train/UPX for free within the Toronto border. It doesn't really help many people, but hey, at least they are giving you the option.

PR and optics go a long way for people.

 

[steveintoronto]

Perhaps its their way of saying "look, I know this detour might suck and inconvenience, you, we are doing everything we possibly can to help, on the off chance getting off at Kipling helps your commute."

This is like when there are shutdowns on the TTC you are allowed to ride the GO Train/UPX for free within the Toronto border. It doesn't really help many people, but hey, at least they are giving you the option.

PR and optics go a long way for people.

Agreed, and to take that even further, in the eventuality that the LSW is detoured via CP Midtown, it would be an excellent opportunity to gauge how traffic does flow at Bloor and Kipling.

The number of level crossings is going to remain an impediment however. The cost for underpasses/bridges for just peak service will be prohibitive. ( I can't see the case for all day, whereas saturation at Union alone predicates this at peak to Summerhill).

At 15 mph, can anyone estimate the time to transit the sub, even if the switches and signals all align?

 

[Megaton327]

Will the section of the Barrie corridor where the line splits near Dundas West get widened to two tracks? I was out there filming the UP yesterday and it certainly looks pretty tight.

Yes, I believe so. The entire stretch from the split up to, I believe, York U used to be two tracks in the distant past--though someone can certainly feel free to correct me on that.

 

[mdrejhon]

Once the double tracking currently going on is complete what are the minimum headway's they could run?

Existing or replacement signal system? There are network-wide considerations at play, too.

On a well-designed commuter network, headways can be as little as ~3 minutes, ala Paris RER. But we're a long way from being able to achieve that, as it requires a fully-owned fully-controlled grade-separated rail network. And Union is a major bottleneck, too.

 

[smallspy]

Will the section of the Barrie corridor where the line splits near Dundas West get widened to two tracks? I was out there filming the UP yesterday and it certainly looks pretty tight.

The line was originally built as a double-track line, and there were sections of double-track as recently as the 1960s, I do believe. But yes, the line will eventually be double-tracked up to Aurora once the EA is completed and money is found.

Existing or replacement signal system? There are network-wide considerations at play, too.

On a well-designed commuter network, headways can be as little as ~3 minutes, ala Paris RER. But we're a long way from being able to achieve that, as it requires a fully-owned fully-controlled grade-separated rail network. And Union is a major bottleneck, too.

It's not just the signals - because the blocks are fixed-length, the equipment has a lot to do with it as well.

With the existing signalling system, taking into account a couple of potential tweaks, short blocks and RTCs being on the ball, 3 minute headways are possible here, too. Realistically, however, under 10 minutes is considered the "reasonable minimum".

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Will the section of the Barrie corridor where the line splits near Dundas West get widened to two tracks? I was out there filming the UP yesterday and it certainly looks pretty tight.

Yes, I believe so. The entire stretch from the split up to, I believe, York U used to be two tracks in the distant past--though someone can certainly feel free to correct me on that.

Once the double tracking currently going on is complete what are the minimum headway's they could run?

Existing or replacement signal system? There are network-wide considerations at play, too.

On a well-designed commuter network, headways can be as little as ~3 minutes, ala Paris RER. But we're a long way from being able to achieve that, as it requires a fully-owned fully-controlled grade-separated rail network. And Union is a major bottleneck, too.

The line was originally built as a double-track line, and there were sections of double-track as recently as the 1960s, I do believe. But yes, the line will eventually be double-tracked up to Aurora once the EA is completed and money is found.



It's not just the signals - because the blocks are fixed-length, the equipment has a lot to do with it as well.

With the existing signalling system, taking into account a couple of potential tweaks, short blocks and RTCs being on the ball, 3 minute headways are possible here, too. Realistically, however, under 10 minutes is considered the "reasonable minimum".

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Interesting. Although, I think they should double track to Mulock Drive since an RER station is going there. They should do less then 15 minutes, to get cars off the road.

I'm surprised that LW and LE have never been partially electrified considering the pretty significant ridership, capacity, and significant level of grade separation.

Mee too. I guess money is why.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I'm surprised that LW and LE have never been partially electrified considering the pretty significant ridership, capacity, and significant level of grade separation.

Mee too. I guess money is why.

Well forbid that LE and LW would proceed with electrification prior to Georgetown South (the UP Express essentially). Weston would get bent out of shape. Besides, an EA/TPAP hasn't been completed yet for LE/LW, only GTS. My cynical theory? It's all queued up for election pressers.

 

[dowlingm]

I'm surprised that LW and LE have never been partially electrified considering the pretty significant ridership, capacity, and significant level of grade separation.

There was the small problem of CN being anti-electrification.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

There was the small problem of CN being anti-electrification.

Maybe the overcharging of Metrolinx can help bring to bear an overall investigation (and ultimately rethinking) of CN business practices and associated railway legislations.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

There were plenty of electrification studies over the years. One loco builder even brought an electric locomotive from Mexico for a 'demonstration' (without any wires, it wasn't much of a test drive!)

The three key factors of oil prices, electricity prices, and interest rates never aligned for long enough to build a business case, and no government ever got serious enough to absorb the cost. Not to say the case wasn't there.... but until now there wasn't the same need to push to electrify. The need for more frequent and quick-footed service is only emerging. Until recently, diesel was good enough.

- Paul

 

[rbt]

It amazes me that with this much work sunk into electrification that the PC's might still throw it all in the trash. If they still pushed electrification and better transit it seems like that could get them a lot of urban votes. A lot of people are fed up with transit in it's current state and they might be able to take advantage of all the current governments work to produce some results.

They won't throw it into the trash BUT you can expect it to be delayed until the budget is balanced (a tax cut of some type will make the budget unbalanced).

If they promise electrification of parts of GO, expect it to be tendered in their second term rather than their first and probably a single line only (like Lake Shore East/West).

 

[crs1026]

It amazes me that with this much work sunk into electrification that the PC's might still throw it all in the trash. If they still pushed electrification and better transit it seems like that could get them a lot of urban votes. A lot of people are fed up with transit in it's current state and they might be able to take advantage of all the current governments work to produce some results.

If they trash electrification, they will be scaling back RER. Actually, I should say it the other way.... WHEN they scale back RER they will conclude they don't need electrfication, and they will jump at avoiding that investment. Hourly and even half hourly diesel service will look like a good basic system.

ML may be able to convince them there is merit in maintaining some level of expansion....Bowmanville and Niagara have political payoffs. Hopefully the Newmarket and Uxbridge double tracking will be far enough along to get continued, but I could see the Davenport overpass cancelled and Aurora service limited to what the line can handle without it.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

The line was originally built as a double-track line, and there were sections of double-track as recently as the 1960s, I do believe. But yes, the line will eventually be double-tracked up to Aurora once the EA is completed and money is found.

Dan, do you have a source for the double tracking statement? Ian Wilson's Allandale book has a copy of the ETT from June 1954, and it doesn't show any DT. I'm not aware that it ever had DT....although it certainly had lots of service tracks, so the clearances were mostly there.

- Paul