mdrejhon
Senior Member
That is some real serious detouring to be done during deployment of RER.
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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)
- Thread starter drum118
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steveintoronto
Superstar
Now that would be an interesting ride!
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I can't believe I missed this question earlier, but does anyone have a rail switch diagram for Aldershot thru West Harbour/Hunter? And the changes the bridge would bring? It would go a long wayntpwards answering this question.
A Hamilton announcement is very imminent (Bet the bank: Steven Del Duca visits between now and Spring 2017)
Detouring on weekends, or a several months-long detour? If it's the latter, it will be interesting to see how they serve Mimico and Exhibition stations. Mimico is pretty low ridership, but there may be the need to run a separate Exhibition-Union shuttle during weekend events.
Either way, I agree with steveintoronto in that it would be a pretty cool ride to take.
I'm assuming this is for RER prep work? From Willowbrook to Union was in the initial operating segment/test segment, wasn't it? Either way, hopefully during the shutdown they upgrade Mimico so that it's accessible when the line re-opens. Much easier to do that work if the station is shut down completely.
steveintoronto
Superstar
There'll probably be more enthusiasts on-board than passengers actually headed somewhere!
In the event, I wouldn't be surprised that the missing length isn't serviced by buses rather than trains. There might be complications in allowing scheduled (albeit temporarily) passenger conveyance on the Canpa leg.
Just digging to see what precedents had been set on passenger conveyance, albeit emergency and scheduled (even if temporary) are viewed differently in regs.
http://canadian-passenger-rail.yahoogroups.narkive.com/GnJGfUUu/go-canpa-detours
I see reference Googling to "Bombardier crews replacing CP ones for the Milton corridor" in 2015. Whether that happened or not is a good question further digging might reveal, but the track itself would have to be certified for use to convey passengers, and ownership alone by Metrolinx may not be sufficient.
It's a good question some other readers might have an answer to. I suspect with *dispensation* it might be allowed with some restrictions applied, speed and token operation perhaps being two.
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SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
A tender for Canpa work closed in September - more here: https://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLI...ORT=0&IS_SME=N&hcode=xTjmUCw6mWHwuozfH1Mqyw==
steveintoronto
Superstar
The plot thickens!
[Metrolinx is accepting bids (“Requests”) for the design, construction supervision and contract administration to upgrade the existing Railway Infrastructure at the Canpa Control Location on the Oakville Subdivision, in order to accommodate future routing and speed requirements for the Lakeshore West Service, and detour routes via the GO Owned Canpa Spur, as more particularly described in this Tender Document as required by Metrolinx, which Services relates to the CANPA Switch Plant Renewal and Upgrade., which Services relates to CANPA Plant Renewal.]
No indication of the time frame expected for this to be done, and how that will affect other scheduled work. I suspect if 'dispensation' is issued to allow passenger conveyance on Canpa, it will have 'go slow' orders on it until this trackwork is done.
Damn, I was looking forward to my 'aficionado day trip' on the detour.
crs1026
Superstar
When CN rebuilt the Canpa interlocking to extend the fourth track from Mimico East (about 3-4 year back, iirc) they reduced the two track connections between the Oakville Sub and the Canpa to one track with a hand thrown switch to merge the two main lines north of that connection. Sounds like they will put that back somehow. It was a lot of money spent at the time, one hopes this doesn't make that investment redundant.
The Canpa was always 'Rule 105' territory - ie no traffic control and a 15 mph speed limit. It will be interesting to see how far GO goes in upgrading it. Certainly in-service GO servive would demand significant track, signal, and grade crossing maintenance. Apart from the occasional detour train (the last in service GO move was during a derailment at Mimico in 2007 iirc), the route hasn't seen 'regular' passenger service since the Long Branch racetrack specials in the late 1950's
- Paul
The Canpa was always 'Rule 105' territory - ie no traffic control and a 15 mph speed limit. It will be interesting to see how far GO goes in upgrading it. Certainly in-service GO servive would demand significant track, signal, and grade crossing maintenance. Apart from the occasional detour train (the last in service GO move was during a derailment at Mimico in 2007 iirc), the route hasn't seen 'regular' passenger service since the Long Branch racetrack specials in the late 1950's
- Paul
steveintoronto
Superstar
I was studying the track layout last night on Google satellite view, what you state historically is still clearly visible for remaining ballast and trackbed. If it is to be used for passenger movement, then in for a penny, in for a pound, albeit it would be interesting to know what's in the terms of the tender. Even for empty movements, they might have to 'light' the line with signalling and remote switching to bring it up to full passenger usage without a warrant, even with speed restrictions (many level crossings) might make sense for future use when and if the Crosstown Line becomes reality.
A second point further to Paul's mention of single-tracking the merge to the mainline, is whether it's warranted to double-track that merge. The more I think about it, even if the line becomes an option for peak train use to Summerhill, single track might be all that's needed, the remaining second track used for lay-by/passing. That would make more sense to retain the investment in the single track junction work already done, albeit making the switch remotely controlled.
I'd be very surprised if it's done before the discussed detour a few posts back.
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crs1026
Superstar
I have seen it. The two tracks from CP appear to connect to the new main track at Hamilton Jct. The new main track ends at Bayview where it joins the existing main track just west of the junction. There will be a new crossover from that track to Track 3. That lets Hamilton Go trains to/from both depots use Track 3 from Aldershot to Bayview without encroaching on the two main tracks that go up the hill to Dundas.
IIrc there are more crossovers at Ham Jct allowing GO to use the existing main line as well so two-way service is possible from Bayview to either depot (except through the Hunter St tunnel, of course). And the current crossovers at Bayview allow trains on Track 2 at Aldershot to reach Hamilton also.
The bridge ( which was an afterthought to the original EA design) brings the new main track all the way to Bayview, instead of ending it at Hamilton Jct..... reducing conflict with CN freights between Bayview and Hamilton Jct.
- Paul
smallspy
Senior Member
I have no idea what the service design is just yet - it sounds like they're still in the planning stages - but it would be weekend detours for many months.
The construction will be to allow the City and Metrolinx to rebuild the bridges over The Kingsway, Windermere, Dufferin, Humber River, etc. I would assume as part of that process they will be building for the future fifth and sixth tracks through that section.
I think that the plan has changed slightly from the EA and preliminary design drawings, and now the mains #2 and 3 at Bayview will carry on to become mains #1 and 2 on the Hamilton end of the Oakville, rather than having #1 tie into #2 before Bayview. This would mean that you would need a diverging switch to enter Hamilton Yard, rather than staying on main #2.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
DonValleyRainbow
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I had suggested this to Greg Percy at GO back when they shut things down during the Dufferin bridge demolition, they probably had it on the books as a potential thing to do anyway, but I felt the need to reinforce that shutting service down entirely was unnecessary and making a Canpa/Galt detour was absolutely worth it. A stop at Kipling seems quite interesting, first I've heard of it. Keeping in mind that this is a detour for Lakeshore West passengers, what is the overall goal of letting people hop onto the Bloor subway?
For those of you following this thread and unsure of what we're talking about, here's a graphic I made of the Dufferin bridge shutdown:
I could see GO just telling people heading to Mimico and Exhibition to take the 501, which I think is fair.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I'm lost. Is this the corridor that could be used as a crosstown RER from Malvern to Lakeshore via Summerhill?
I wonder, if Canpa and the Milton corridor do get upgraded, I wouldn't mind seeing some local Lakeshore trains use that permanently instead of continuing along LSW via Mimico and Exhibition. I've had to do quite a few trips where I've had to back-track from Keele or Dufferin to Union to catch the LSW train. Having the occasional LSW train intersect the Bloor-Danforth line at Kipling and Dundas West would be a welcome connection for anyone bound for the west side of Toronto. Not to mention it would make it much easier to access Pearson for LSW passengers.
For a service pattern, have the Oakville and out trains run express to Union after Oakville via LSW, but have some local trains that start at Oakville run via Canpa and Galt.
For a service pattern, have the Oakville and out trains run express to Union after Oakville via LSW, but have some local trains that start at Oakville run via Canpa and Galt.
crs1026
Superstar
It't the westernmost part of it, yes. If you look at where the line drops towards Union....that's West Toronto Junction. There is a line that runs east from there across the city to Leaside and beyond.
It's interesting to consider where that route should terminate. Much will depend on how the south end of Etobicoke is developed. I agree with the idea of RER (semi) express trains on LSW to Union, but we will need stopping service on the Lakeshore as well as the new route. Running both stopping services all the way to Oakville might be redundant and could demand a lot of track capacity. A hub somewhere in south Etobicoke (Kipling ? Long Branch? or further west at Port Credit?) might be the better place for this line to terminate, with transfer there from LSW as well as the semi express. I wonder if a South Etobicoke City Center will ever emerge.
This routing would be a great way to relieve Union Station, by offering uptown bound travellers an alternative to a downtown transfer. However, with so much employment etc downtown, it's not likely we will ever back off on LSW as a Union-bound corridor.
- Paul