GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[steveintoronto]

When you look at the totality of what the Province has promised, the likely delivery dates are closer to 2030 than 2025. I don't expect future governments to cancel projects so much as change delivery dates to match the funds available.

It's very difficult to stifle cynicism, and at best, whenever a 'new announcement' is made, it goes over like a thud. It's like someone chronically promising to pay you back for what they owe.

And to make it even worse, there's no alternative (at this time) to vote for who'd deliver as promised. I really don't like the idea of private delivery of services, but one has to wonder: Can it possibly be any worse than the present delivery?

Instead of borrowing, the issuance of bonds for infrastructure, or Private Partnership, might make a very good option. At least there would be a contract to hold them to.

 

[crs1026]

It's very difficult to stifle cynicism, and at best, whenever a 'new announcement' is made, it goes over like a thud. It's like someone chronically promising to pay you back for what they owe.

And to make it even worse, there's no alternative (at this time) to vote for who'd deliver as promised. I really don't like the idea of private delivery of services, but one has to wonder: Can it possibly be any worse than the present delivery?

Instead of borrowing, the issuance of bonds for infrastructure, or Private Partnership, might make a very good option. At least there would be a contract to hold them to.

Metrolinx is certainly spending gobs of money, as @TransitBart points out. I could add a couple more expensive transactions: the Canpa acquisition, tripletracking at Georgetown, the new Kitchener layover yard, Guildwood station improvements, the Dufferin bridge widening. And work on Union Station plods along. These expenditures do add up to a hefty overall spend.

I'm told the design of the Mount Pleasant layover yard is progressing, so procurement may happen soon. If the Missing Link bypass announcement was in good faith, land purchases will have to begin there sooner than later. Metrolinx appears determined to get the Davenport leg of the Barrie line underway. That's another hefty chunk of spending for the next couple of years.

There may be a rational order to all of this, but it's all incremental and piecemeal. None of it is presented in relation to the totality of prerequisites that must be in place before a given route can be upgraded to a higher level of service. The Wynne legacy may be to have moved a bunch of projects to 60% completion. Without assurance of the remaining 40%, that's a total waste of effort.

- Paul

 

[TransitBart]

Metrolinx is certainly spending gobs of money, as @TransitBart points out. I could add a couple more expensive transactions: the Canpa acquisition, tripletracking at Georgetown, the new Kitchener layover yard, Guildwood station improvements, the Dufferin bridge widening. And work on Union Station plods along. These expenditures do add up to a hefty overall spend.

I'm told the design of the Mount Pleasant layover yard is progressing, so procurement may happen soon. If the Missing Link bypass announcement was in good faith, land purchases will have to begin there sooner than later. Metrolinx appears determined to get the Davenport leg of the Barrie line underway. That's another hefty chunk of spending for the next couple of years.

There may be a rational order to all of this, but it's all incremental and piecemeal. None of it is presented in relation to the totality of prerequisites that must be in place before a given route can be upgraded to a higher level of service. The Wynne legacy may be to have moved a bunch of projects to 60% completion. Without assurance of the remaining 40%, that's a total waste of effort.

- Paul

In my work experience, when so many things are happening that nothing appears to be making any significant progress forward, sometimes I have got everyone in a room and we have determined which of the projects is closest or cheapest or easiest to complete. Then we have prioritized it and got it done. And then we repeat and choose the next easiest. Time for a little prioritization.

 

[steveintoronto]

If the Missing Link bypass announcement was in good faith, land purchases will have to begin there sooner than later.

This remains the saving grace and logic of the foot-dragging, and I think many would agree, if all the *tentative* promises were rolled into one, and the money spent on the Missing Link, all would be understood and forgiven, as that one investment (with partners) would render all the other projects vastly less costly and rational.

We're spending vast amounts to avoid the elephant in the room. Even the Davenport flyover would be of questionable value if the CP Crosstown route fell into Metrolinx hands. Scheduling across the diamond could be handled by time frame, not physical separation, and from the same dispatch. A flyover is great, but it's not *really* mandatory. It is without the Link, it isn't with it.

The Missing Link remains just that...missing. And the term "All Day Service" sounds remarkably like "An All Day Sucker". Even if Ontario goes into debt (slap myself)...*much further into debt* for the Missing Link, and then leases access out to the freight haulers, it will *pay off in the long term*. I'm still hoping for the Feds to make a major announcement on it, but alas...the beard is growing...

The Wynne legacy may be to have moved a bunch of projects to 60% completion. Without assurance of the remaining 40%, that's a total waste of effort.

That sums it up very well. A mistress of unfinished projects, a queen of none.

Edit to Add: Bart's post just went up as I was typing mine. "The One Ring that binds them All"...it's the Missing Link, and in a rational procedure, the rest should be put on hold (within reason) and all effort put to doing the Link. Once done, the rest falls into place in much more rational terms. Where we differ is that the Link is going to be hugely expensive. But long term, it renders massive savings to all the other projects, and vastly simplifies many. The Brampton and Georgetown corridor immediately simplifies, with a great knock-on effect to the others.

 

[mdrejhon]

One thing I don't like is the moral hazard that can unwittingly hurt transit -- unfinished pedestrian crossings and the like -- at the big fanfare, people try them, then people give up on using them then they get finished (With no news fanfare), then they aren't used as much as if they would have been finished in the first place.

There are really many incomplete projects GO-wide.

It would be nice to have a publicly-available status page for this.

It may be a cliche as an excuses/blame page but better than nothing (e.g. contractor, waiting for Toronto, etc). It will at least it will make it easier for taxpayers like us to light a fire at the appropriate party -- even those who otherwise likes many things Metrolinx has done (far better than the 20-year pre-Metrolinx status quo). City fault? Pressure them. Metrolinx fault? Pressure them. Contractor fault? It's a shaming page that contractors would fear being mentioned. Funding prioritization/shortfall issue? Definitely mention that too. Etc. Keep it simple, highlight the primary issues. Pinkbunny & rainbow it if need be with euphemisms, if need be, but keep it accountable and honest by mentioning funding issues or main showstoppers.

We're looking forward to a lot of the more-useful Big Move elements being done, but elements definitely need clearer tracking going forward.

 

[mdrejhon]

In my work experience, when so many things are happening that nothing appears to be making any significant progress forward, sometimes I have got everyone in a room and we have determined which of the projects is closest or cheapest or easiest to complete. Then we have prioritized it and got it done. And then we repeat and choose the next easiest. Time for a little prioritization.

Strategic prioritization is excellent. Some completions provides excellent ROI.

One example is completing a 100 meter section of track to permit existing Niagara-Toronto (2-way!) summer seasonal trains to stop in Hamilton and actually increase farebox recovery instantly, since the train already currently bypasses a brand new $50-million major-city train station.

Maybe the above is not a quick project (e.g. CN negotiations), but this is an example of a theoretically low-lying apple that would actually have great taxpayer return via funding prioritization acceleration of low-cost completions of almost-completed projects. Get farebox recovery increases sooner, get ROI sooner. Nearly-completed pedestrian accesses should be raised in priority, too.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The limits with that approach (i.e. lowest hanging fruit) is that it inevitably leave the high complexity/cost but high impact (if not downright enabling) works delayed/undone. Plus incremental projects often gets chosen and substituted as "progress" given the needs of the electoral cycle as well. This gets us into the trap that is current transit malaise.

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

It's very difficult to stifle cynicism, and at best, whenever a 'new announcement' is made, it goes over like a thud. It's like someone chronically promising to pay you back for what they owe.

And to make it even worse, there's no alternative (at this time) to vote for who'd deliver as promised. I really don't like the idea of private delivery of services, but one has to wonder: Can it possibly be any worse than the present delivery?

Instead of borrowing, the issuance of bonds for infrastructure, or Private Partnership, might make a very good option. At least there would be a contract to hold them to.

There may be a rational order to all of this, but it's all incremental and piecemeal. None of it is presented in relation to the totality of prerequisites that must be in place before a given route can be upgraded to a higher level of service. The Wynne legacy may be to have moved a bunch of projects to 60% completion. Without assurance of the remaining 40%, that's a total waste of effort.

- Paul

The 60% complete/40% unfinished part is a good point, even if the numbers are off. The Big Move was supposed to be Dalton McGuinty's legacy, and the thing that was supposed to be pushing it to 100% completion (including all the bells, whistles, and other finishing to each project) was $2 billion in dedicated, guaranteed revenue annually. The Wynne legacy, in my mind, will be her promise to have an 'adult conversation' about transit tools, and then running away from that promise altogether.

What it has left is with is the stuff shown in drum's pictures. Functionally complete, but way behind schedule and aesthetically displeasing.

It has also left us with the gazillion press ops for the half completed stuff, because the premier and the cabinet still has control over the money, instead of transit infrastructure being treated as regular, somewhat boring but routine infrastructure implemented by a non-partisan agency.

It has rendered some projects pending 'partner funding'. What was supposed to be 100% paid for the province is now on hold until the feds or a municipality chips in.

Worst of all, it has left us with some forgotten projects. What ever happened to the Jane LRT? Midtown GO service?

Metrolinx deserves some blame, but not all of it when they have to spread funds limited by politicians over a myriad of commitments made by politicians.

Sorry to rant about a broader array of stuff on this GO construction thread.

 

[steveintoronto]

It has rendered some projects pending 'partner funding'. What was supposed to be 100% paid for the province is now on hold until the feds or a municipality chips in.

Indeed, still no word on the City coming up with the financing for the SmartTrack stations. And that commitment is due (middle next month?) from memory.

Paul with have a better memory on that, dates elude me the older I get. I know it's impending, and all we hear is silence on the money, but no shortage of yacking on all the magnificent castles they're going to build.

One example is completing a 100 meter section of track to permit existing Niagara-Toronto

Yeah, for the life of me, I can't understand why they stopped short of enabling that. I for one (with a group of others) would cycle down from Guelph (perhaps meet in Aberfoyle, since one group would come from Toronto on the 25, 48 or 29 bus) to get on the train to Niagara on weekends. Burlington is much tougher to get to without using major roads, which negates it for many of us.

Also the reverse, taking the Niagara train out to St Kitts, and cycling back to Hamilton to reboard the Niagara express, albeit in all fairness, the cycle path across the harbour mouth can be taken to Burlington, but still, the option to entrain for those exhausted is an excellent plus for a mixed group outing.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Indeed, still no word on the City coming up with the financing for the SmartTrack stations.

OH MY GOD why are we still pretending that is still a thing? The province is only playing along with the SmartTrack branding is that it plays into their hand of downloading the costs of GO RER onto the city. Pleading for partner funding on municipal rapid transit projects is one thing. But getting a municipality to subsidize a component of a provincially owned and operated service?!

Toronto has been had.

 

[robmausser]

OH MY GOD why are we still pretending that is still a thing? The province is only playing along with the SmartTrack branding is that it plays into their hand of downloading the costs of GO RER onto the city. Pleading for partner funding on municipal rapid transit projects is one thing. But getting a municipality to subsidize a component of a provincially owned and operated service?!

Toronto has been had.

I disagree.

The province had no interest in building these 5 stations, and much like the modifications that Brampton requested to the Hurontario LRT, the city has to pony up the dough.

Of course Brampton just ended up dropping the LRT altogether for now, but if it wants an alternative alignment it must pay for it.

In fact, Toronto got lucky with the Scarborough LRT being converted to subway, and the province still putting money towards it, but that was just a vote grab.

Wynne has enough support downtown she doesnt have to buy out voters in that area.

 

[steveintoronto]

OH MY GOD why are we still pretending that is still a thing? The province is only playing along with the SmartTrack branding is that it plays into their hand of downloading the costs of GO RER onto the city. Pleading for partner funding on municipal rapid transit projects is one thing. But getting a municipality to subsidize a component of a provincially owned and operated service?!

Toronto has been had.

Not quite. The SmartTrack stations are in addition to the RER ones, albeit usage will all be by RER. I'm surprised actually that the City isn't on the hook for the *entire* cost of them. It's a three-way share...*contingent* on the City coming up with financing. Del Duca has been openly nudging the City that time is running out for them to come up with their share.

Edit to Add: Rob's post went up while I was still typing. We make the same points.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I think we can agree to disagree. Metrolinx was planning additional GO stations in Toronto before Tory and SmartTrack came along. Then Tory made a big climbdown from a separate 'subway-like service' that included Eglinton to additional stations that would have been produced out of a Metrolinx assessment exercise anyway. And it's operating GO trains, using Metrolinx fare structure, at RER frequency. SmartTrack = GO RER.

Tory admitted himself it was a 'service concept'. And now Toronto is paying for it.

 

[robmausser]

I think we can agree to disagree. Metrolinx was planning additional GO stations in Toronto before Tory and SmartTrack came along. Then Tory made a big climbdown from a separate 'subway-like service' that included Eglinton to additional stations that would have been produced out of a Metrolinx assessment exercise anyway. And it's operating GO trains, using Metrolinx fare structure, at RER frequency. SmartTrack = GO RER.

Tory admitted himself it was a 'service concept'. And now Toronto is paying for it.

Show me a single report from Metrolinx PRIOR to Smarttrack that shows a Liberty Village, St.Clair, Lawrence, Unilever, Gerrard, and Finch stations.

The 50+ stations report came out after smarttrack was incorporated into GO RER, as a way to best see how additional stations would fit the GO RER network.

Electrification and GO RER concepts came before Smarttrack, but without any planning for the stations downtown that the city is paying for. Full stop.

You may like to blow smoke and say "oh well they would have done it anyways" but the truth of the matter is that there is 0 evidence indicating that they were going to.

We don't have to agree to disagree, this isn't an opinion piece, you are factually WRONG.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Show me a single report from Metrolinx PRIOR to Smarttrack that shows a Liberty Village, St.Clair, Lawrence, Unilever, Gerrard, and Finch stations.

The 50+ stations report came out after smarttrack was incorporated into GO RER, as a way to best see how additional stations would fit the GO RER network.

Electrification and GO RER concepts came before Smarttrack, but without any planning for the stations downtown that the city is paying for. Full stop.

You may like to blow smoke and say "oh well they would have done it anyways" but the truth of the matter is that there is 0 evidence indicating that they were going to.

We don't have to agree to disagree, this isn't an opinion piece, you are factually WRONG.

That's the official take - what about the unofficial one? Background discussions don't necessarily percolate to the public attention until the decisions have been made behind the scene - especially considering that ST is basically derived from the SRRA report: https://static.squarespace.com/stat...SRRA+-+Business+Case+Regional+Relief+Line.pdf

(SRRA, 2013, p. 6).

Make careful note of where the proposed stations are. And best yet - guess who the major players, including the principal figures behind that report are:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/11/17/the_evolution_of_smarttrack.html

These are people who are connected to the wazoos.

AoD