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Globe: Second NHL Team for Toronto?

Hamilton would work because of the level of interest in hockey in southern Ontario. The region has enough hockey fans which would go to see games featuring NHL greats like Crosby or Ovechkin regardless of how Hamilton was doing. Games with Toronto, of which there would probably be many, would be highly lucrative. There's less Canadian interest in Buffalo because it's further for many, involves a border crossing, and Canadians tend to be more enthusiastic about Canadian teams.

If Seattle deserves a team, then I don't see why it should a matter of one or the other. Also, while hockey may be growing in the US, I am skeptical that the number of registered players will quickly break the 1 percent mark of population.
 
Sure it is. Who the hell plays Australian football other than Australians? Hockey is truly a global sport, you can't deny that. If the sport has the potential to be something greater than it is in the US, why not give it the opportunity to do so?

Ah, I see your point now. We must prop up teams in failed southern US markets to build the sport up in the parts of the US that don't give a rat's @$$.

So how about Mexico? Bogota? If it's a global game, it's got to be an easy sell in cities 2-5 times the size of Phoenix!

They tried it for 10 years in Phoenix, and failed miserably. Why should the owners 0f 24-25 teams subsidize teams in the Deep South and the Desert (I wouldn't touch Dallas, San Jose, Tampa Bay perhaps, Carolina, at least one of the two LA teams).

Seattle (or Portland even) isn't a bad idea. Perhaps Nashville or Atlanta can go there.
 
Looks like Balsillie is going to get invloved with the rally on May 30th....

Balsillie hails his day in court
Plans to file relocation request today

May 20, 2009
Meredith MacLeod
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/568993

Jim Balsillie says his day in court yesterday couldn’t have gone any better in his bid to bring NHL hockey to Hamilton.

“Yesterday was an outstanding day,†Balsillie told a local radio station.* “A very short time ago what was considered impossible is now on the verge of happening.â€

He said the ruling by an Arizona bankruptcy court judge that he will hear arguments about whether the Phoenix Coyotes can be legally relocated and the bidding process for an auction sale of the team is the best outcome he could have hoped to see.

“This is exactly what we wanted. This is exactly what we asked for,†Balsillie told CHML’s Bill Kelly.

“The judge will open the auction and decide on location. I don’t know how it could have been better.â€

That could open the door to a move as Balsillie’s $212.5-million US bid is conditional on being allowed to relocate to Copps Coliseum.

He said his lawyers will file an application today to relocate the team to Hamilton.

“We want to follow the rules. All we’ve asked for is that they be applied in an open and transparent way.

“Our bid will be weighed on its merits and nothing else.â€

Balsillie repeatedly thanked “hockey nation†and those who have joined his website.

*He said there will soon be a “call to actionâ€* for specific help from fans as the process unfolds.

What’s next?

“Stay tuned,†Balsillie said. “There’s more to do. It’s all verypositive. There’s more to do but people are doing amazing.â€
 
The NHL fan base of Southern Ontario is already anchored by 3 concrete teams: Toronto, Buffalo and Detroit. You could even throw the Senators and Habs into the mix if you want.

Personally, I see this Balsillie situation as a giant fad. Sure everyone's excited and happy now, but what happens when Mr. RIM's vision fails everyone's expectations? Will people still be raving about this new NHL team after numerous losing seasons? The initial excitement will wear off once the scab fans begin to lose interest.

My opposition to placing another team in Canada is based on the fact that hockey, contrary to what many here would like to believe, IS in fact growing in the US. Currently, there are roughly the same amount of registered hockey players (about 500,000) in Canada and the US. The NHL would be stupid to squander the opportunity to promote further growth of the game in the States. Eventually, the amount of American hockey players will outnumber Canadian players, and yes, eventually the Americans will dominate at yet another sport. Big deal. It's happened before.

I believe a more appropriate location for a new NHL team would be in Seattle. The state of Washington has and still does support various teams, and has contributed numerous NHLers, and has a solid minor hockey base. With a market of over 4 million people, a move into the Seattle area would be more beneficial than putting a team in the middle of 3 other well established franchises.

"Honestly, you sound like an out of touch 55 year old guy who reads the Sun and loves Don Cherry."

Nice try jn_12. Although I find Don funny at times, he's too much of a senile old clown to be taken seriously anymore. I would never read a blue collar hogwash of print media like the Sun either. I'm just a 19 year old university student who thinks this whole situation is ridiculously stupid and overblown by the hockey addicted media here.

Hockey is growing slowly in the US, I've never denied it, and I agree fully, although I'd like to see registration numbers for every year over the last 20. In fact, I played against a lot of American teams growing up, so I've seen it first hand. But of the 500,000 kids signed up in hockey in the US the vast (very vast) majority are in the north east. In the US, Dallas and LA have had a bit of growth (particularly Dallas), but I would bet the number of players in either of these places would rival any minor hockey organization in the OMHA, ODHA, or GTHL. We're talking cities of millions having the same numbers as cities one-tenth the size.

Also, the number of registered players does not equal the total number of participants and fans. Most adults aren't registered. There's also nothing to suggest that simply because a kid is in hockey that his parents are hockey fans. Parents control the money in the house and they decide whether to go to an NHL game. I played with many people whose parents never played the game and beyond what their kid was doing, couldn't care less about hockey. So that's not an accurate stat whatsoever.

You're quick to say that Balsillie and his team would fail. Why would they fail? He's committed to putting a winning team on the ice, he's said it himself that his goal is to get his name on the Stanley Cup. if he got Phoenix or any other team I'm sure he would do everything possible to bring the best players to the team. If you have an owner that is committed to winning (so essentially, the anti-thesis to the Leafs) the crowds will be there. If it was the Coyotes that he brought to Hamilton, they have a really young and talented core of players with a lot of potential, that would be very attractive to any hockey fan.

it's not a fad. This is Balsillie's third kick at the can, and eventually he will get his team. Phoenix is just the tip of the iceberg. Nashville, Dallas, Tampa, Atlanta and Florida are in some sort of financial peril. It's bound to happen.

I agree Seattle would be a good market for a team. They support their Junior hockey really well, and could have some potential there.

Finally, umm did you read that article from USAhockey that you quoted? The USA does not create many elite hockey players. Go to any elite AAA minor hockey tournament and you're bound to see Detroit Little Caesars, Compuware and Honeybaked, Chicago Young Americans, Team Illinois and then the rest will be Canadian teams from places like Welland, Peterborough and London, and teams like the Toronto Marlboros and Red Wings. The fact is American clubs can take players from anywhere within a 100mi area, whereas Canadian teams can only take players from within their boundaries. The fact that Canadian teams compete at this level with American teams with population bases that are sometimes 50-100 times bigger is a testament to the quality of hockey played in Canada. The US will never have the quality and depth that we have. They might win a World Cup here and a World Juniors there, but it will be a blip.
 
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Hockey is growing slowly in the US, I've never denied it, and I agree fully, although I'd like to see registration numbers for every year over the last 20. In fact, I played against a lot of American teams growing up, so I've seen it first hand. But of the 500,000 kids signed up in hockey in the US the vast (very vast) majority are in the north east. In the US, Dallas and LA have had a bit of growth (particularly Dallas), but I would bet the number of players in either of these places would rival any minor hockey organization in the OMHA, ODHA, or GTHL. We're talking cities of millions having the same numbers as cities one-tenth the size.

Also, the number of registered players does not equal the total number of participants and fans. Most adults aren't registered. There's also nothing to suggest that simply because a kid is in hockey that his parents are hockey fans. Parents control the money in the house and they decide whether to go to an NHL game. I played with many people whose parents never played the game and beyond what their kid was doing, couldn't care less about hockey. So that's not an accurate stat whatsoever.

You're quick to say that Balsillie and his team would fail. Why would they fail? He's committed to putting a winning team on the ice, he's said it himself that his goal is to get his name on the Stanley Cup. if he got Phoenix or any other team I'm sure he would do everything possible to bring the best players to the team. If you have an owner that is committed to winning (so essentially, the anti-thesis to the Leafs) the crowds will be there. If it was the Coyotes that he brought to Hamilton, they have a really young and talented core of players with a lot of potential, that would be very attractive to any hockey fan.

it's not a fad. This is Balsillie's third kick at the can, and eventually he will get his team. Phoenix is just the tip of the iceberg. Nashville, Dallas, Tampa, Atlanta and Florida are in some sort of financial peril. It's bound to happen.

I agree Seattle would be a good market for a team. They support their Junior hockey really well, and could have some potential there.

Finally, umm did you read that article from USAhockey that you quoted? The USA does not create many elite hockey players. Go to any elite AAA minor hockey tournament and you're bound to see Detroit Little Caesars, Compuware and Honeybaked, Chicago Young Americans, Team Illinois and then the rest will be Canadian teams from places like Welland, Peterborough and London, and teams like the Toronto Marlboros and Red Wings. The fact is American clubs can take players from anywhere within a 100mi area, whereas Canadian teams can only take players from within their boundaries. The fact that Canadian teams compete at this level with American teams with population bases that are sometimes 50-100 times bigger is a testament to the quality of hockey played in Canada. The US will never have the quality and depth that we have. They might win a World Cup here and a World Juniors there, but it will be a blip.

Give it some time and you will see the transition of the hockey torch. It doesn't matter that hockey is more popular here in higher percentages. The fact is the US has 10 times our population, and eventually the gap between the development of elite players here and in the US will slowly diminish.

Just a small note here before I finish off though. This is just an observation, but of all the 4 major league sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) is it just a coincidence that the NHL contains the least minorities and is also the least popular in the US? On the contrary, take a look at the NFL, NBA and heck even Major League Baseball. Just a thought.
 
Give it some time and you will see the transition of the hockey torch. It doesn't matter that hockey is more popular here in higher percentages. The fact is the US has 10 times our population, and eventually the gap between the development of elite players here and in the US will slowly diminish.
Quantity has nothing to do with quality. The most international of sports is soccer. Last time I checked, China and India are no where near the Brazils, Argentinas, Spains, Englands and Italys of the world. I bet more Chinese play soccer than English. So in your estimation China will be the world soccer super power because of that. You fail to realize that the quality of player is the product of the system they grew up in. The type of hockey coaching you get in Canada is near impossible to get elsewhere. Yes, coaching can be taught, but we do that on a mass level while the US hasn't been able to do that beyond it's elite AAA programs. The gap has closed obviously amongst the top 6 countries in the world compared to 30 years ago when it was just the Canadian and the Russians, but the top end talent and the depth can't be matched in the US with the system they have.

Just a small note here before I finish off though. This is just an observation, but of all the 4 major league sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) is it just a coincidence that the NHL contains the least minorities and is also the least popular in the US? On the contrary, take a look at the NFL, NBA and heck even Major League Baseball. Just a thought.

Isn't this just a point that goes against your original thesis? If anything it suggests further that the NHL doesn't work well in areas where there aren't roots in the sport.
 
A NHL team for Hamilton...

Everyone: I learned about the move for Hamilton to land an NHL team from a radio show I listened to on CHML Radio recently.
I did NOT realize that the Phoenix Coyotes were in dire straits financially.
I feel that fans will definitely support a second team in the Golden Horseshoe
but I wonder if the Maple Leafs management will fight this with all they have!
If the Coyotes moved to Hamilton it could be a "Homecoming" for one Wayne Gretzky perhaps...then again the NY Islanders may be available-I wonder if Charles Wang has been in contact with the Hamilton group...
Thoughts from LI MIKE
 
Quantity has nothing to do with quality. The most international of sports is soccer. Last time I checked, China and India are no where near the Brazils, Argentinas, Spains, Englands and Italys of the world. I bet more Chinese play soccer than English. So in your estimation China will be the world soccer super power because of that. You fail to realize that the quality of player is the product of the system they grew up in. The type of hockey coaching you get in Canada is near impossible to get elsewhere. Yes, coaching can be taught, but we do that on a mass level while the US hasn't been able to do that beyond it's elite AAA programs. The gap has closed obviously amongst the top 6 countries in the world compared to 30 years ago when it was just the Canadian and the Russians, but the top end talent and the depth can't be matched in the US with the system they have.



Isn't this just a point that goes against your original thesis? If anything it suggests further that the NHL doesn't work well in areas where there aren't roots in the sport.

You're comparing two different sports with totally different circumstances. The article link I sent specifically addresses the problems with the current coaching system in the US. Things are always changing so you can't just say Canada is ALWAYS going to produce more hockey talent than the US. I just don't see it staying that way.
 
Just a small note here before I finish off though. This is just an observation, but of all the 4 major league sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) is it just a coincidence that the NHL contains the least minorities and is also the least popular in the US? On the contrary, take a look at the NFL, NBA and heck even Major League Baseball. Just a thought.

Not surprising. Hockey is a winter sport. Large swaths of the US don't experience very much winter. Visible minorities tend to come from hot places. Most NHL players come from cold weather countries: Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, Slovakia... and those countries are full of white people.
 
You're comparing two different sports with totally different circumstances. The article link I sent specifically addresses the problems with the current coaching system in the US. Things are always changing so you can't just say Canada is ALWAYS going to produce more hockey talent than the US. I just don't see it staying that way.

Explain how are they different circumstances? II doubt you know. Fact is both rely on player development from a young age, both rely on coaching and tactics, both rely on physical ability, both are played internationally (though one moreso than the other, which if anything furthers my point even more), both have professional leagues that compete for players and have a vested interest in the quality of player in their league. If anything, the coaching gap between nations in hockey is much greater than in soccer. Also, the cost of playing elite hockey in the US is way more than in Canada. So you end up with a smaller cross-section of the population playing the sport. I've played with guys from AAA programs in Detroit and their parents paid upwards of $20,000/yr.

Anyways, you haven't really supported your argument at all. so I won't go any further until you do so considering the effort I've put in.
 
Proposal for a renovated Copps Coliseum....

view_of_renovated_exterior.jpg


600_x_368_interior_view_of_seating_bowl.jpg


600_x_450_interior_view_of_party_deck.jpg


600_x_480_interior_view_of_main_lobby_atrium_2.jpg


600_x_480_interior_view_of_main_lobby_atrium.jpg


600_x_331_interior_view_of_club_lounge.jpg
 
Amazing

Thanx Kiwi thats the most amazing render I have seen for a stadium. I can only hope the ACC one day would look that good. Even in the end if no team comes to Hamilton I really hope that a redo like this comes to fruit.

The only thing I could see be a problem in the future with this render is the ceiling height which should be the same at least as the ACC to accommodate the odd big concert or show of which are only getting bigger each year.
 
Wow, Fantastic!! I LOVE the balconies.. I've never seen anything like that.

I also love that he moved the main entrance right to the corner of York & Bay, rather than where it is now (beside a dark, scary underground parking ramp).

Arenas and Stadiums and Velodromes... OH MY!
 

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