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General railway discussions

lenaitch said:
That is a very good Legion. I suspect that if it wasn't for them the building would have be razed.


Originally built as the Georgian Bay and Seaboard.
Click to expand...

Which was little more than a paper corporation; it was only built to connect Port McNicoll with CP lines at Medonte, Lindsay, and Dranoel (Leonard spelled backwards).
 
Northern Light said:
I don't doubt you.



Look at the picture though, it might as well have been. It looks terrible.

What's the point of 'saving' it like that?
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It seems I'm not getting your concern. It's a bit of a jumble with the newer addition (on the right) tacked onto the original, but it's a function building owned and operated by an organization that doesn't have deep pockets. A lot of that jumble was the original station.
 
lenaitch said:
It seems I'm not getting your concern. It's a bit of a jumble with the newer addition (on the right) tacked onto the original, but it's a function building owned and operated by an organization that doesn't have deep pockets. A lot of that jumble was the original station.
Click to expand...

I'm confused by your lack of concern.

What has been retained is not worth having been retained. Many of the windows have been boarded over, much of the brick has been EIFS/stucco'ed.

Even the other side:

1752582491716.png


The stucco over the brick, windows exist on this side, but are completely ahistorical.

If you gave me a choice between keeping the above and demolition, I'd pick demolition every time.

What's left is unattractive...........err genuinely ugly, and completely ahistorical.

I get that organization may not have a lot of $$, but then they shouldn't have bought what they couldn't afford to maintain properly.

A historical designation should also have afforded access to grants from the town, the Legion is also a registered charity and could have fundraised for the work.

But I'm not going to fault them any; its just not worth keeping if this is what you're doing with it. Might as well build a new modern box that's more functional.

I don't know the condition of the building nor its interior appearance, but fixing the outside looks like 2-3M to me. That's a very crude estimate for historically accurate windows, and lifting the stucco and restoring the brick, and appropriate landscaping, and uplighting.

Full exterior likely requires a new roof by the look of it as well, so add a good $200,000 for that. (looking at the condition and number of layers, looks like a big job)

Interior is a question mark, but probably at least $500,000 and maybe up to 4x that for ceilings/floors/interior walls/lighting.
 
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just east of the creek said:
Staying in North Vancouver, the Shipyards Area, for a few days and kept hearing train noises at odd times. So when I had a break I went walking and then consulted the CN atlas after barely seeing cargo moving through the area. The line originates in Prince George and swings through West Van, then North Van on its way to crossing the inner harbour closer to Burnaby. I am sure this has a name and someone will educate me.

What I found interesting is that the line proceeds through a tunnel of buildings etc as it closes the ‘Shipyards’ and reappears somewhere. Urban railroading. So I took a couple of photos from Chesterfield Place.

The balance of the tunnel apparently dates to the 1920’s / 1930’s and these sections are a little more recent.

There appear to be three tracks, used with consistency I would say, that feed into a single track through the tunnel, and then immediately into a yard to the east.

And above - condos, restaurants, hotels.

View attachment 665936View attachment 665937View attachment 665938
Click to expand...
I remember seeing that portal when I took the SeaBus and walked North Van a decade ago, and thinking to myself "huh, what a quirky portal!" I have also crossed or stood along the Squamish Sub in a couple places up the coast, but it's only occurring to me now they're the same thing.
 
Northern Light said:
I'm confused by your lack of concern.

What has been retained is not worth having been retained. Many of the windows have been boarded over, much of the brick has been EIFS/stucco'ed.

Even the other side:

View attachment 666246

The stucco over the brick, windows exist on this side, but are completely ahistorical.

If you gave me a choice between keeping the above and demolition, I'd pick demolition every time.

What's left is unattractive...........err genuinely ugly, and completely ahistorical.

I get that organization may not have a lot of $$, but then they shouldn't have bought what they couldn't afford to maintain properly.

A historical designation should also have afforded access to grants from the town, the Legion is also a registered charity and could have fundraised for the work.

But I'm not going to fault them any; its just not worth keeping if this is what you're doing with it. Might as well build a new modern box that's more functional.

I don't know the condition of the building nor its interior appearance, but fixing the outside looks like 2-3M to me. That's a very crude estimate for historically accurate windows, and lifting the stucco and restoring the brick, and appropriate landscaping, and uplighting.

Full exterior likely requires a new roof by the look of it as well, so add a good $200,000 for that. (looking at the condition and number of layers, looks like a big job)

Interior is a question mark, but probably at least $500,000 and maybe up to 4x that for ceilings/floors/interior walls/lighting.
Click to expand...
While I mostly agree, I'd never pick demolition, because once these historic buildings are gone, they're gone forever. At least if they remain extant, even in a deplorable, shameful state such as this example, there is always an opportunity to restore it to its former glory if the right owner comes along.
 
Towered said:
While I mostly agree, I'd never pick demolition, because once these historic buildings are gone, they're gone forever. At least if they remain extant, even in a deplorable, shameful state such as this example, there is always an opportunity to restore it to its former glory if the right owner comes along.
Click to expand...

My statement was meant to compare demolition with the building in its current state in perpetuity.
 
Northern Light said:
I'm confused by your lack of concern.

What has been retained is not worth having been retained. Many of the windows have been boarded over, much of the brick has been EIFS/stucco'ed.

Even the other side:

View attachment 666246

The stucco over the brick, windows exist on this side, but are completely ahistorical.

If you gave me a choice between keeping the above and demolition, I'd pick demolition every time.

What's left is unattractive...........err genuinely ugly, and completely ahistorical.

I get that organization may not have a lot of $$, but then they shouldn't have bought what they couldn't afford to maintain properly.

A historical designation should also have afforded access to grants from the town, the Legion is also a registered charity and could have fundraised for the work.

But I'm not going to fault them any; its just not worth keeping if this is what you're doing with it. Might as well build a new modern box that's more functional.

I don't know the condition of the building nor its interior appearance, but fixing the outside looks like 2-3M to me. That's a very crude estimate for historically accurate windows, and lifting the stucco and restoring the brick, and appropriate landscaping, and uplighting.

Full exterior likely requires a new roof by the look of it as well, so add a good $200,000 for that. (looking at the condition and number of layers, looks like a big job)

Interior is a question mark, but probably at least $500,000 and maybe up to 4x that for ceilings/floors/interior walls/lighting.
Click to expand...
Well, if we're going to gather 'round and beat up on property owners . . .

I suppose there is a difference of perspective between restoration and maintaining the original character of a building and gentrifying it.

There aren't a lot of previous pictures of the station but it appears that the stucco'd area is the old freight/baggage shed. I suppose they could open it back up like it used to be:

1752613527482.png


It's hard to tell but it looks like the original masonry structure is brick with stone skirting. It does seem that they've parged over the stone and I will concede that they could have done a better job of bricking in unused windows. Inside is pretty typical Legion; although I don't know its condition. The original part are two wood-paneled club rooms, storage, some offices space and a small museum area.

This is an earlier undated pic after the addition was added:
1752614260252.png





Not to worry, perhaps some day this Branch will go like too many others and it will be replaced by a glass and aluminum condo. It's prime waterfront.
 
lenaitch said:
Well, if we're going to gather 'round and beat up on property owners . . .

I suppose there is a difference of perspective between restoration and maintaining the original character of a building and gentrifying it.

There aren't a lot of previous pictures of the station but it appears that the stucco'd area is the old freight/baggage shed. I suppose they could open it back up like it used to be:

View attachment 666355

It's hard to tell but it looks like the original masonry structure is brick with stone skirting. It does seem that they've parged over the stone and I will concede that they could have done a better job of bricking in unused windows. Inside is pretty typical Legion; although I don't know its condition. The original part are two wood-paneled club rooms, storage, some offices space and a small museum area.

This is an earlier undated pic after the addition was added:
View attachment 666357




Not to worry, perhaps some day this Branch will go like too many others and it will be replaced by a glass and aluminum condo. It's prime waterfront.
Click to expand...

Really? I'm beating on the Legion? C'mon that's a gross exaggeration, I did no such thing and I deeply resent you, normally a nice and reasonable person grossly exaggerating and misrepresenting what I'm saying.

We're discussing the point of preservation. Its to preserve, because you appreciate what it is, aesthetically or culturally/symbolically. All I'm saying is that what has been done here is not that, so why bother?

Its not a shut down the Legion comment or anything like it, and I don't understand you getting so worked up when all I did was represent, accurately, that the building has been altered significantly in a manner that is unattractive and ahistorical which is entirely accurate as substantiated by the pictures.

I simply don't get why anyone 'saved' it to do that to it, which isn't saving.

That's not bashing. Wow.
 
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Is the station designated? My impression is that CP shed it many years back, before the heritage legislation was passed and/or grew teeth.
In that context, it’s a marvel that CP chose to sell it instead of razing it like they did so many others. And there would have been no legal prohibition against substantially changing it. (Even today, “listed” heritage properties are permitted to be changed beyond all recognition)
There’s no doubt, if the structure were ever designated, there would be legal teeth to require the restoration of windows, siding, and roofing appropriate to its railway heritage.
But if there was no heritage designation, then I can’t fault the Legion for exercising its perogative…. Much as I would have much preferred a more traditional treatment.

- Paul
 
CN seeks to discontinue 214 miles of the Rocky Mountaineer route from North Vancouver to Whistler and on to Jasper
(Affected track begins north of Squamish)
www.squamishchief.com

What could CN discontinuing its Sea to Sky Corridor line mean?

The Rocky Mountaineer's Rainforest to Gold Rush route may be at risk following Canadian National Railway's decision to discontinue parts of its B.C. lines.
www.squamishchief.com www.squamishchief.com
 
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