General railway discussions

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I imagine they don't figure on those sleepers being covered by snow for much of the year.,

The environmental impacts of the (grimy, oily) runoff from the cleaning would be an interesting study.

Collection of the power in our fairly remote areas would also be a challenge.

- Paul

Emilia-Romagna does receive some snow. Particularly in the mountain areas. Bologna for example receives snow about 5 days in every month during the winter season and an annual total of about 22 inches per year (mostly during Feb). So I imagine they'd have thought about snow cover. Then again, though, even here in Canada the snow is quickly cleared from the tracks simply by the passing of the trains over them.

However, the ROW's are often quite wide. Wouldn't a track side panel work as well, if not better? Heck a wind mill might be an even better idea! There are wind power generators where the blades are vertical.

 

[Urban Sky]

But building a rail network that is only 40km/h faster compare to what we have now and calling it the biggest infrastructure project in Canadian history drives me bonkers, just can't stand it. Yes, it will be more frequent and separate tracks, but at the of the day it's all about how fast and you can get from point A to point B.

Exactly and that’s not a question about what speed the train reaches, but about how well it can sustain that speed and how long it takes to reach the destination. And that is where frequency comes to play, because the lack of flexibility adds to perceived travel times, especially with the current 4-hour gaps in the schedule (e.g., train 64 leaves Toronto for Montreal at 11:32, followed by train 66 at 15:17).

My frustration with VIA’s schedule is not the five hours (and often more) of productive work time I spend on board its superb Business Class, but that I’m forced to leave my office before lunch if I want to be home in time to bring my kids to bed in the evening. Doubling the frequency (thus offering a 1:30 departure which allows me to be home by 7pm) would have a much bigger impact on my travel behavior than cutting 60 or 90 minutes from the scheduled travel time…

Government has to constantly educate people why this kind of project is crucial. The majority of the population don't get it and have no idea how it can possibly affect them in a good way, people prefer new highways....

I really have a hard time faulting anyone living in Atlantic Canada, the Prairies or at the Pacific Coast for failing to see the value which HSR in the Q-W Corridor would bring for their lives - let alone those living in First Nations communities who are basically left to rot with crowded and mouldy schools and dirt roads as the only means of access while being denied access to cell phone reception or even sanitary running water, thanks to an eyewatering infrastructure investment backlog of $349 billion while we keep enriching ourselves on the lands we stole from them:

They need new homes, roads and schools. But Indigenous communities across Canada ‘can’t catch up’ thanks to staggering $349B infrastructure gap

Ottawa has pledged to close the infrastructure gap by 2030. An official said decades of underfunding means Canada has bills “yet to be paid.”

www.thestar.com

No, there really are much more pressing priorities in this cruel joke of a “rich and developed” country than spending something like $50 billions on shiny bullet trains, when one-third of that amount (spent still on trains, but slightly slower ones) would still achieve two-thirds of the benefits…

On top of politics I also think Canadian Airlines making an impact and trying to make a bad influence, if we get real HSR (300+ km/h) they'll start loosing billions, nobody will fly between Toronto - Montreal- Quebec and these are the most popular routes. It happened in Italy, when high speed trains were introduced the entire national Airline (Alitalia) went bankrupt (one of the reasons, but a significant one).

I’m not sure you realize just how dependent Western Canadians (and thus the Canadian Air industry) are on domestic air routes in their half of this (very unlike Italy) vast and sparsely populated country, exactly because (and very unlike the T-O-M triangle) there are no credible alternatives:

Spoiler

Vancouver International Airport has some of North America's busiest airline routes | Venture

Despite being only a mid-sized airport in terms of annual passenger numbers, Vancouver International Airport (YVR) punches well above its weight.

dailyhive.com

 

[Allandale25]

I guess it's going to be test/used somewhere in the US? Or are these being shipped out of the US? (I don't have time to pull the pictures and add them to the post)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778565950242996320

 

[drum118]

I guess it's going to be test/used somewhere in the US? Or are these being shipped out of the US? (I don't have time to pull the pictures and add them to the post)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778565950242996320

View attachment 555607

Alstom concludes the successful demonstration of the first commercial service hydrogen-powered train in North America​

 

[turbanplanner]

Exactly and that’s not a question about what speed the train reaches, but about how well it can sustain that speed and how long it takes to reach the destination. And that is where frequency comes to play, because the lack of flexibility adds to perceived travel times, especially with the current 4-hour gaps in the schedule (e.g., train 64 leaves Toronto for Montreal at 11:32, followed by train 66 at 15:17).

My frustration with VIA’s schedule is not the five hours (and often more) of productive work time I spend on board its superb Business Class, but that I’m forced to leave my office before lunch if I want to be home in time to bring my kids to bed in the evening. Doubling the frequency (thus offering a 1:30 departure which allows me to be home by 7pm) would have a much bigger impact on my travel behavior than cutting 60 or 90 minutes from the scheduled travel time…


I really have a hard time faulting anyone living in Atlantic Canada, the Prairies or at the Pacific Coast for failing to see the value which HSR in the Q-W Corridor would bring for their lives - let alone those living in First Nations communities who are basically left to rot with crowded and mouldy schools and dirt roads as the only means of access while being denied access to cell phone reception or even sanitary running water, thanks to an eyewatering infrastructure investment backlog of $349 billion while we keep enriching ourselves on the lands we stole from them:

They need new homes, roads and schools. But Indigenous communities across Canada ‘can’t catch up’ thanks to staggering $349B infrastructure gap

Ottawa has pledged to close the infrastructure gap by 2030. An official said decades of underfunding means Canada has bills “yet to be paid.”

www.thestar.com

No, there really are much more pressing priorities in this cruel joke of a “rich and developed” country than spending something like $50 billions on shiny bullet trains, when one-third of that amount (spent still on trains, but slightly slower ones) would still achieve two-thirds of the benefits…


I’m not sure you realize just how dependent Western Canadians (and thus the Canadian Air industry) are on domestic air routes in their half of this (very unlike Italy) vast and sparsely populated country, exactly because (and very unlike the T-O-M triangle) there are no credible alternatives:

Spoiler

View attachment 555522
View attachment 555523View attachment 555524

Vancouver International Airport has some of North America's busiest airline routes | Venture

Despite being only a mid-sized airport in terms of annual passenger numbers, Vancouver International Airport (YVR) punches well above its weight.

dailyhive.com

Don't we spend a crazy amount per person for first nations issues, and they're mostly self governing on the reserves?

 

[lenaitch]

Don't we spend a crazy amount per person for first nations issues, and they're mostly self governing on the reserves?

Yes we do and yes they are. Your point? We put them there and there is a difference between self-governing and self-sustaining. Many have little to no economic potential.

 

[Allandale25]

VIA Rail taking CN to Canadian Transportation Agency

VIA Rail is seeking adjudication of track access on the Canadian National network under clause 152.1 of the Canada Transportation Act.

www.transportaction.ca

 

[dowlingm]

I guess it's going to be test/used somewhere in the US? Or are these being shipped out of the US? (I don't have time to pull the pictures and add them to the post)

The location appears to be Halifax so I guess the direction is returning to Europe.

There is a hydrogen trial project in the US but it is using Stadler vehicles, in San Bernadino

 

[dowlingm]

It happened in Italy, when high speed trains were introduced the entire national Airline (Alitalia) went bankrupt (one of the reasons, but a significant one).

Alitalia spent decades on the brink - what killed it was EU State Aid restrictions.

There is a decent sized article on the financial crises of Alitalia and it doesn't mention "rail" or "train".

Financial situation of Alitalia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Urban Sky]

Alitalia spent decades on the brink - what killed it was EU State Aid restrictions.

There is a decent sized article on the financial crises of Alitalia and it doesn't mention "rail" or "train".

Financial situation of Alitalia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Holy moly, Alitalia had already accummulated 30 continuous years of losses before the Direttissima opened (in 1977) as arguably the first HSR line in Europe:

 

[dowlingm]

Alitalia could not compete in an open skies environment - the beginning of the end was when Aer Lingus broke the papal monopoly in 1979

 

[nfitz]

Yes we do and yes they are. Your point? We put them there and there is a difference between self-governing and self-sustaining. Many have little to no economic potential.

It's all reserve- and treaty-specific. Some don't get anything. Some get $5 every 2 years, as per certain treaties. There are some large amounts - but that's settlement for damages, abuse, land-theft, and other treaty violations. Which certainly isn't long-term.

 

[lenaitch]

It's all reserve- and treaty-specific. Some don't get anything. Some get $5 every 2 years, as per certain treaties. There are some large amounts - but that's settlement for damages, abuse, land-theft, and other treaty violations. Which certainly isn't long-term.

The statement was "First Nations issues" which I took with a broader definition than money going to individuals. Federal government program spending is about $25Bn (not including what the provinces spend) but I don't know if that includes negotiated or imposed settlement amounts. In light of the post that was being responded to, it seemed to have the subtext of 'we spend enough on them already'. I could be wrong.

 

[just east of the creek]

We spend a lot of time discussing passenger rail of varying types though UT forums. And we often compare projects, initiatives, current practices with other railway networks, often in Europe. I thought the attached map was interesting as it visually portrays the scale of the railway networks in NAM and Europe. Although there are urban railways in NAM, even in the most densely populated corridors, there is nowhere near the level of rail infrastructure that you find in Europe. Our urban planning is still fixated on cars and forms of public transit still come second and worse (could you imagine a ‘go slow’ order on the 401 of say 70 kmh……indefinitely, without being addressed with emergency repairs?). Compare the integrated transit options at Schipol (love that airport) with that of Toronto. Although Schipol handles more passengers (Nearly 60 million vs 45 million) the disparity in transit connections is much larger - excluding the car. We have a long way to go, even addressing the core issues, let alone the more questionable (in terms of utility) transit issues.

 

[Urban Sky]

We spend a lot of time discussing passenger rail of varying types though UT forums. And we often compare projects, initiatives, current practices with other railway networks, often in Europe. I thought the attached map was interesting as it visually portrays the scale of the railway networks in NAM and Europe. Although there are urban railways in NAM, even in the most densely populated corridors, there is nowhere near the level of rail infrastructure that you find in Europe. Our urban planning is still fixated on cars and forms of public transit still come second and worse (could you imagine a ‘go slow’ order on the 401 of say 70 kmh……indefinitely, without being addressed with emergency repairs?). Compare the integrated transit options at Schipol (love that airport) with that of Toronto. Although Schipol handles more passengers (Nearly 60 million vs 45 million) the disparity in transit connections is much larger - excluding the car. We have a long way to go, even addressing the core issues, let alone the more questionable (in terms of utility) transit issues. View attachment 557320

It‘s not really useful to compare all of North America with all of Europe (let alone: its most densely populated areas), but when you take Ontario and Quebec and strip away the vastly unpopulated Northern regions (e.g., the Kenora district and Nord-du-Quebec), you get a similar population density as Norway or Sweden, so maybe these are better comparisons than some of the most densely populated countries in the world (like Netherlands or Switzerland)…