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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

The same article, with a similar "crackdown" headline appeared in the Star.

Great. Another opportunity for drivers to bash cyclists, cyclists to bash drivers and cyclists to complain about other cyclists. No money for bike infrastructure, or even a plan to pave the shoulders of non-freeway provincial highways. Nice move, Glen Murray.

By the way, next week is back to school. That means that the police will do their same "blitz" at the four-way stop at Beverley and Baldwin, ticket some really stupid cyclists, and call it a job well done.
 
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I really think that the law should be changed so that stop signs are yield signs. Cyclists usually travel 10-15 km/h max, 1/4 or 1/5 the speed of the car. Stop signs were never meant to control cycling traffic. To force non-motorized vehicle moving at already slow-speeds to always come to a complete stop without exceptions is following the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
 
I can do up to 30km/h sometimes, but more often I probably do 20 km/h. But I live in Mississauga, and there are no other cyclists to get in my way, and little risk of getting doored by parked cars.

Anyways I was merely making an estimate. If you've measured the speeds feel free to show us the statistics if the exact numbers are so important to you. My point remains the same either way.
 
doady said:
I really think that the law should be changed so that stop signs are yield signs. Cyclists usually travel 10-15 km/h max, 1/4 or 1/5 the speed of the car. Stop signs were never meant to control cycling traffic. To force non-motorized vehicle moving at already slow-speeds to always come to a complete stop without exceptions is following the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
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Will they enforce the STOP sign when an electric wheelchair does not come to a full stop?
 
doady said:
I can do up to 30km/h sometimes, but more often I probably do 20 km/h. But I live in Mississauga, and there are no other cyclists to get in my way, and little risk of getting doored by parked cars.

Anyways I was merely making an estimate. If you've measured the speeds feel free to show us the statistics if the exact numbers are so important to you. My point remains the same either way.
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It's not that the exact numbers are so important, but your point that cyclists are so much slower than cars isn't true. In fact, downtown bikes can often move more quickly than cars. When I'm biking through Mississauga or Oakville subdivisions, I'm going 30 and the cars are going 40-50, so there's not a huge gap in the speeds approaching stop signs. And I'm not unusual -- in fact, I often get passed biking there.
 
If you've ever been to Ward's island on a friday afternoon or to Mackinac island, etc. then you know that cyclists and pedestrians can exist peacefully in large volumes even with minimum signalling.

Cars are a perfect storm danger-wise: very fast, very heavy, very large, and there is little incentive for a driver (who on top of it all has to deal with very poor visibility) to protect those around him. Bringing them to a full stop serves an important purpose.

Also, the main past-time of North American drivers is sprinting to red lights - which means that even though I can beat any car to any destination within downtown Toronto, they will still drive well above the speed limit and what is reasonable in every stretch they can get away with. Most cars that engage in these behaviour are therefore very dangerous to pedestrians around them even if they are a painfully slow way to get around overall.
 
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W. K. Lis said:
That's average! Including stopping, not moving, accelerating, and cruising.
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Precisely ... I think we all know that a bicycle is faster than a streetcar (with all the stops). Ergo the bicycle is averaging more than 10-15 kph let alone peaking at 10-15 kph.
 
RC8 said:
Cars are a perfect storm danger-wise: very fast, very heavy, very large
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Which is why we restrict them to the roads, built with them in mind, as noted by the lack of bike lanes. What's changed is not that the cars are leaving the roadspace and endangering pedestrians and cyclists, but that cyclists and pedestrians are increasingly entering the roadspace.

It would be smarter to completely separate the three groups. Dedicated roads for cars and buses, separated trails for cyclists, and dedicated paths for pedestrians (ie, cycle-free sidewalks). We just need to deal with the intersections of these three groups to eliminate or reduce risk.

Cyclists and car users will never get along if they must use the same space.
 
I just rode the bike path on Eglinton between Jane and Royal York for the first time. Brilliant -- separated sidewalks for some of it and in other parts the pedestrian sidewalk section is separated by a row of red bricks from the bike path. That's how multi-use trails should be. Sad thing is, hardly anyone is using that beautiful stretch of trail, by bike or on foot. Compare it to the MGT where I usually ride which is very busy and could use that type of separation! So why is it done on a virtually deserted stretch but not on a very busy stretch of trail? Things that make you go hmmmm!
 
Admiral Beez said:
Which is why we restrict them to the roads, built with them in mind, as noted by the lack of bike lanes. What's changed is not that the cars are leaving the roadspace and endangering pedestrians and cyclists, but that cyclists and pedestrians are increasingly entering the roadspace.

It would be smarter to completely separate the three groups. Dedicated roads for cars and buses, separated trails for cyclists, and dedicated paths for pedestrians (ie, cycle-free sidewalks). We just need to deal with the intersections of these three groups to eliminate or reduce risk.

Cyclists and car users will never get along if they must use the same space.
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Hans Monderman, please pick up the white courtesy phone. Hans Monderman, to the white courtesy phone, please.
 
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