G-20 Summit in Toronto

[tkip]

"Black ops"? Total police conspiracy of silence?

This thread is sliding downhill fast.

Yup. Now we're entering the stuff of fantasy. It's really quite simple.

There was a lot of bad behaviour that weekend and obviously too many took advantage and acted out for the thrill of it. And some are trying to turn a so-so summit event with allegations of questionable police behaviour on one afternoon into a much bigger issue than it is. I have co-workers from different parts of south and central america that think the whole reaction to the summit is a joke.

Toronto is certainly nowhere being that dangerous a place to live. Not even close. The fact that there's going to be an inquiry to look into the allegations shows there's a system in place where you can hold authority accountable. How many other countries have this?

Canada is perhaps one of the safest and most liberal countries on the planet where you can practically do anything. Getting a little tired of some people trying to make Toronto and Canada out to be some closet police state with out of control human rights violations everywhere. I think the underlying problem is that we as canadians are spoiled brats.

My mother, who came from a generation that had to work hard and earn their way and deal with true tough times and conditions, just shook her head when I was in my teens at the increasing attitude that she interpreted as people she thought had no idea what hardship and exploitation and misery actually were.

We have no connection with what so many in most of the world go through when dealing with horrific governments and loss of freedom, human rights and abuses..... on a daily basis.

 

[victor]

Speaking of a conspiracy...
Arc'teryx (sic!) Montreal (sic!) Store will have a big sidewalk sale on July 17 and 18.

Total conspiracy indeed

 

[Asterix]

The logistics for any "black operation" would - in my opinion - have to come from CSIS. They would have arranged for the transport of agents, operation of safe-houses, assigning of "handlers" etc. Remember the stock and trade of CSIS is secrets. The hundreds of agents that work for this organization are good at keeping secrets. Only very senior police officials (Blair certainly) would be in on the details so that they could issue the order to their officers to stand down while the "black-bloc" black-ops were doing their thing.

In your opinion, is involvement in domestic operations even permitted by law for CSIS? CIA is forbidden from operating domestically and there have been a couple of significant scandals when there have been suggestions they have been doing something they shouldn't have. Just because they'd contract out the supposed agent doesn't mean CSIS isn't responsible for the operation. Are you really suggesting that senior government officials, right up to the Prime Minister, are willing to risk the extremely severe consequences of ordering something so blatantly illegal? What possible motivation could Chief Blair have for going along with such a scheme? He's not a federal officer and is not beholden to Harper or anyone in Ottawa with respect to going along with such covert ops.

Should even the slightest suggestion of this sort of thing leaking out, heads would presumably roll for Blair and top Toronto cops, CSIS top officials (who apparently aren't very good right now at knowing what secrets to keep quiet) and even the PM.

Yeah, that all sounds like a balanced risk for those folks to take, especially since their black ops agent(s) did such a good job at fomenting massive destructive violence that resulted in millions of dollars in property damage and dozens (even hundreds) of civilians being hospitalized, thereby giving the police the perfect excuse to run roughshod over anyone and everyone, beating detainees to within an inch of their lives and 'disappearing' many into the Canadian gulag system.

For such a carefully and meticulously planned operation, you'd think they would have gone to the trouble to actually cause some destruction and violence of an even worse kind on Sunday.

Occam's razor.

Yes in my experience they do, just check out the police new releases. They almost invariably include an appeal to the public even in cases when they have made an arrest.

So what about the arrests they haven't made public in news releases that they don't make appeals to the public for more information?

 

[Coltaine79]

Could y'all please STFU with the conspiracy crap? You're just making people LAUGH AT YOU. There are some actual grounded-in-reality people who support the G20 inquiry who are getting seriously annoyed by your 12-year-old-esque redirection.

Anyways, there is more news on the "Inquiry" front; the Ontario ombudsman will conduct a separate investigation into the "secret law". So that's a second investigative front, along with the civilian led inquiry into police conduct.

With 2 investigations for the incident, that's not bad, as it'll result in keeping this stuff on front page news for a while longer, not possible to sweep it under the rug.

 

[PinkLucy]

Could y'all please STFU with the conspiracy crap? You're just making people LAUGH AT YOU. There are some actual grounded-in-reality people who support the G20 inquiry who are getting seriously annoyed by your 12-year-old-esque redirection.

I don't know, I feel like I'm watching a bad sequel of The Bourne Identity or something.

 

[buildup]

Caltraine's conspiracy theories are more legitimate than yours. And your "re-direction" efforts are signalling latent signs of conspiracy.

 

[Redroom Studios]

lol, perfect! some people just have too much free time on their hands...

 

[Coltaine79]

Caltraine's conspiracy theories are more legitimate than yours. And your "re-direction" efforts are signalling latent signs of conspiracy.

LOL, what are you talking about? This isn't the Transport forum.

Besides, a belief that the LEOs in this country are wholly incompetent is not a "conspiracy theory". Nobody is "conspiring" to be incompetent in my opinion; they just ARE.

 

[WillC]

Could y'all please STFU with the conspiracy crap? You're just making people LAUGH AT YOU. There are some actual grounded-in-reality people who support the G20 inquiry who are getting seriously annoyed by your 12-year-old-esque redirection...

I suppose that acronimic obscenity was aimed at me, for posting the video above. Fortunately if I think that there is a possiblity of design in the way that Harper spent $1B, I'm free to post that here. In that I am supported by a large section of thinking in this city. If those who would reject it anyway, use the world 'conspiracy' to try discredit it, they need to use a dictionary.

 

[Coltaine79]

I suppose that acronimic obscenity was aimed at me, for posting the video above. Fortunately if I think that there is a possiblity of design in the way that Harper spent $1B, I'm free to post that here. In that I am supported by a large section of thinking in this city. If those who would reject it anyway, use the world 'conspiracy' to try discredit it, they need to use a dictionary.

What? No, I am talking about Peepers. Maybe I should have used the quoting feature, eh? I have no idea what you posted anyways. I looked up and don't see a video in your last post so I don't know what you are talking about.

I do also believe that Harper is ultimately responsible for the whole fiasco as he's the one (AFAIK) who selected Toronto.

But after Toronto was selected, the execution of the plan was up to local officials; Miller, Blair, perhaps McGuinty. Which is why I put more of the blame on their plates and on their underlings; i.e. the various LEOs working in downtown on that weekend.

 

[Peepers]

Could y'all please STFU with the conspiracy crap? You're just making people LAUGH AT YOU. .

I don't know why people find far-fetched the possibility that agent provocateurs were employed by law enforcement. It happened before at the Montibello summit. Undercover agents were caught red handed carrying rocks and actively inciting others to commit acts of violence. The Quebec police actually admitted they were undercover cops.

The mystery of arc'teryx man seems to be gaining some traction. Someone has devoted this blog to him http://torontog20exposed.blogspot.com/2010/07/suspected-agent-provocatuer.html

Lots of interesting information on this blog such as his strange demeanor. He kept to himself and did not mix with the main black-bloc group. He incited others to commit violence. He told a women with a child that he was going to call children's aid on her.

Also interesting is the second video's posted on this blog. It shows how a small army of police in full riot gear had actually SECURED the area of Queen / Spadina where the two cruisers were left abandoned, some time around 3:45 Saturday afternoon. By 4:30 the Riot Police had VANISHED ! Leaving the two police cruisers behind to be vandalized! Whether or not the vandals included police provocateurs - one thing is clear - the police wanted their vehicles to get trashed.

 

[Peepers]

In your opinion, is involvement in domestic operations even permitted by law for CSIS? CIA is forbidden from operating domestically and there have been a couple of significant scandals when there have been suggestions they have been doing something they shouldn't have. Just because they'd contract out the supposed agent doesn't mean CSIS isn't responsible for the operation. Are you really suggesting that senior government officials, right up to the Prime Minister, are willing to risk the extremely severe consequences of ordering something so blatantly illegal? What possible motivation could Chief Blair have for going along with such a scheme? He's not a federal officer and is not beholden to Harper or anyone in Ottawa with respect to going along with such covert ops.

Should even the slightest suggestion of this sort of thing leaking out, heads would presumably roll for Blair and top Toronto cops, CSIS top officials (who apparently aren't very good right now at knowing what secrets to keep quiet) and even the PM.

Yeah, that all sounds like a balanced risk for those folks to take, especially since their black ops agent(s) did such a good job at fomenting massive destructive violence that resulted in millions of dollars in property damage and dozens (even hundreds) of civilians being hospitalized, thereby giving the police the perfect excuse to run roughshod over anyone and everyone, beating detainees to within an inch of their lives and 'disappearing' many into the Canadian gulag system.

For such a carefully and meticulously planned operation, you'd think they would have gone to the trouble to actually cause some destruction and violence of an even worse kind on Sunday.

Unlike the CIA, CSIS is allowed to carry out operations domestically. As for your other comments suggesting that it is highly improbable that senior officials and politicians (all the way up to Harper) would carry out such a risky operation because of the consequences of getting caught - I would remind you that they DID IT BEFORE in 2007 at the Montebello Summit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAfzUOx53Rg&feature=player_embedded

Quebec police were caught red-handed using undercover agents inciting violence while holding rocks in their hands. The Quebec police even admitted this fact! I don't recall much political fallout or heads rolling after that episode. If anything the Montebello revelation probably emboldened the authorities when it comes to using these kind of tactics since there is not much of a public backlash when they get caught.

 

[Peepers]

I should add to my second last post that lest there be any doubt that the police car torched in front of Steves' Music Store was in fact left there by the police as bait - about hour later a second police car - parked just a few feet away - was also set on fire. Again the police had completely cleared the area. You would think that after the first car was set on fire the cops would have driven ( or towed ) the second vehicle away. Instead it was left as bait for another headline grabbing incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukCHgaUtHg

 

[Asterix]

I should add to my second last post that lest there be any doubt that the police car torched in front of Steves' Music Store was in fact left there by the police as bait - about hour later a second police car - parked just feet away - was also set on fire. Again the police had completely cleared the area. You would think that after the first car was set on fire the cops would have driven ( or towed ) the second vehicle away. Instead it was left as bait for another headline grabbing incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukCHgaUtHg

But you said this covert ops thing was known only to a very small, select group of top ranking officers. Did they swear in a couple of sargents or constables into their conspiracy to get them to leave the cars out as 'bait'? What about the officer who was in one of the cars when it was stormed and was interviewed in the papers about being rescued by his fellow officers? Were they all in on the plan?

What about the supervisors of these cops who flagrantly abandoned their vehicles in such a slipshod manner? Wouldn't they be roasting their hides for neglect of duty to just park their cruisers so as to invite torching? Or were these captains and lieutenants also sworn to secrecy by this cabal of senior cops, CSIS, top government officials and told not to worry about the loss of thousands of dollars of police equipment (to say nothing of the safety hazard posed by the ammunition that can be heard cooking off in some of the news videos)?

 

[Peepers]

But you said this covert ops thing was known only to a very small, select group of top ranking officers. Did they swear in a couple of sargents or constables into their conspiracy to get them to leave the cars out as 'bait'? What about the officer who was in one of the cars when it was stormed and was interviewed in the papers about being rescued by his fellow officers? Were they all in on the plan?

What about the supervisors of these cops who flagrantly abandoned their vehicles in such a slipshod manner? Wouldn't they be roasting their hides for neglect of duty to just park their cruisers so as to invite torching? Or were these captains and lieutenants also sworn to secrecy by this cabal of senior cops, CSIS, top government officials and told not to worry about the loss of thousands of dollars of police equipment (to say nothing of the safety hazard posed by the ammunition that can be heard cooking off in some of the news videos)?

I think that what happened at Queen and Spadina on the Saturday actually proves how only a small group of mostly senior officers and officials were "in the know". In the video we see how a very large force of Riot police in full Riot gear showed up just BEFORE the first abandoned car was set on fire and had the area completely secure. The SENIOR officer who ordered them to this area was probably not in on the "plan" . From the command centre - where live video was being fed from overhead circling aircraft - the planners would have seen this large force in the area of the "bait cars" and gave an order to clear the area so that things could proceed as planned. Even after the first car was set on fire no attempt was made to remove the second cruiser just a few feet away. The police would AGAIN completely clear the area so that this second cruiser could be set on fire.