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G-20 Summit in Toronto

Darwinkgo said:
Have we seen any photos of people arrested that are still in custody? The 14 (or was it 16) of them? No, we have not - why? Because to parade them out in front of television cameras can contaminate the jury pool and lead to a mistrial, especially in a case with high media interest.

Oh, but sure it is just a huge conspiracy.... Yeah! That's the ticket!
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The reason why we have not seen any information (names and pictures) on the 16 formally charged is because they seem to be a bunch of well intentioned kids whose only crime was being idealistic. The Police have nothing to gain from revealing to the public the identity of those they have incarcerated in fact it would probably cause a public backlash so the cops have imposed a self-serving information blackout. Media people can be thrown in jail if they reveal any information about these people (just like in a communist state).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ly-white-kids-with-good-teeth/article1631010/

On the other hand when it suits their purpose the cops have no problem releasing details on those charged - for example the first "G20 arrest" the IT Expert arrested in a raid on his Forest Hill home along with his wife AND the British "love police" guy who was arrested and charged with impersonating a police officer because he joked to a security guard that he was an undercover cop. Why aren't the police worried about "contaminating the jury pool" in these cases? Go to the police website and you will see they issue detailed information on persons charged including photographs if they feel that the person might be responsible of committing other crimes (e.g. in the case of sex crimes involving children)

Also lets assume that Arc'teryx Man has been charged as one of the ringleaders. Why wouldn't the cops release his picture with a request for more information from the public? This can only bolster their case against him not weaken it especially if other pictures surface of him committing other acts of vandalism.

The lack of interest in this guy by the Police is very curious.
 
Asterix said:
You never answered the last post raising all the huge improbabilities that would have to be in place for this guy to be a "police operative", even one smuggled in from out of the country. Guess you don't want reality to interfere with your little conspiracy fantasy.

How do you know his arrest would have been "announced with huge fanfare"? Just because "you can count on it" doesn't mean it is true. Maybe they are still collecting evidence against him? Do you have a list of all those still in detention?
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I thought I gave a detailed explanation at post 1041 on how this could have been carried out as a "black ops" involving the use of overseas recruits and safe-houses.
 
Asterix said:
How is it that none of the dozens of locals who would need to know about this scheme have leaked even the slightest suggestion? Surely given the blatant illegality of it someone would have had enough of a conscious to mention to their spouse, drinking buddy, fellow officer, their qualms. Just imagine the scandal many of the media would love to trumpet.

Yet they haven't. What does this suggest to you?
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Actually very few police would have to be "in the know" If black-ops operatives were at work, the knowledge of them would not have had to go far beyond the senior officers who gave the order not to engage the vandals. I am sure a lot of police officers are still scratching their heads as to why this order was given. Also remember the Police are a brotherhood. The worst thing you can do is rat out another officer. Remember how Fantino destroyed the careers of internal police investigators who dared exposed corrupt police officers?

Asterix said:
Doesn't PROVE anything. He could also have been a complete moron who thinks trashing a police car will convince the populace that his political ideology is a worthwhile thing for society. Complete morons from out of town (out of province? out of country?) don't necessarily grasp concepts such as the consequences of their public actions.
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He could be a complete moron which would put him in the category of someone not afraid of being identified.

Asterix said:
Just because you personally have no doubt about something doesn't make it true. Are you familiar with all the other arrests from the past week, both connected to the G-20 and unrelated? Do you know how many have been formally charged and what those charges are? Do you know whether any of them have still be denied their right to counsel? What about their right to a fair trial? If they've already arrested the punk and have photographic evidence they feel is enough to convict, maybe there isn't anything to be gained by holding his trial in the media before holding in front of a judge. Maybe the police learned from the Forest Hill arrest and are making sure all their ducks are in line before broadcasting their arrest coup. But then you have no doubt that none of those things are possible or plausible.
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If in fact they have already arrested the "punk" (arc'teryx man) for his role in the police cruiser torching the police would normally want to know if he was involved in other acts of vandalsim (to throw the book at him) and therefore it makes perfect sense to appeal to the public for any other photographic evidence of this man committing crimes. That they have not made this appeal to the public is very strange
 
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Peepers said:
Actually very few police would have to be "in the know" If black-ops operatives were at work knowledge of them would not have had to go far beyond the senior officers who gave the order not to engage the vandals. I am sure a lot of police officers are still scratching their heads as to why this order was given.
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Where did this 'safe house' come from? Who arranged it? How was it paid for? Who dealt with the expenses for this operative? How does several thousands of dollars get accounted for? What connection do senior police officers have with this international rent-an-operative organization (maybe if we're talking CSIS here, but do municipal police forces hang with that type of crowd)? What other references do you have to western media that talks about this rent-an-operative organization? What past history have anyone in the Toronto Police Services shown that they'd be the types to not only know this secret 1-800 number but also go way outside the law in making use of it? How is it possible that not a single word of this conspiracy managed to leak out, yet no one was bright enough to tell the guy to wear a mask so keen eyed members of the public such as yourself can easily identify him?

See how many people need to have been in on the secret?

Alternatively, might it be a little less convoluted if this guy was just a straight-up moron. Occam's razor.

If in fact they have already arrested the "punk" (arc'teryx man) for his role in the police cruiser torching the police would normally want to know if he was involved in other acts of vandalsim (to throw the book at him) and therefore it makes perfect sense to appeal to the public for any other photographic evidence of this man committing crimes. That they have not made this appeal to the public is very strange
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Do you know for sure what information the police do and do not know? In your experience, do they regularly make mass appeals for every single crime they investigate?

While it may make "perfect sense to appeal to the public" for further info on this guy, it also makes perfect sense that they have what they need without broadcasting it in your morning paper. I'm pretty sure they have investigated and solved past crimes successfully without your help.
 
Peepers said:
I thought I gave a detailed explanation at post 1041 on how this could have been carried out as a "black ops" involving the use of overseas recruits and safe-houses.
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Post 1040 is a post about how the Queen put up with the heat by going to Tim Horton's. Are you implying that Tim Horton is a spy?
 
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Coltaine79 said:
McGuinty leans... fascist? Who knew?
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You don't have to be a right-wing fascist to support what some might call (not me, in this case) brutal or excessive policing. All left leaning, socialist and communist governments have relied on brutal and secretive police to maintain order and control.
 
Asterix said:
Where did this 'safe house' come from? Who arranged it? How was it paid for? Who dealt with the expenses for this operative
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The logistics for any "black operation" would - in my opinion - have to come from CSIS. They would have arranged for the transport of agents, operation of safe-houses, assigning of "handlers" etc. Remember the stock and trade of CSIS is secrets. The hundreds of agents that work for this organization are good at keeping secrets. Only very senior police officials (Blair certainly) would be in on the details so that they could issue the order to their officers to stand down while the "black-bloc" black-ops were doing their thing.

Asterix said:
In your experience, do they regularly make mass appeals for every single crime they investigate?
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Yes in my experience they do, just check out the police new releases. They almost invariably include an appeal to the public even in cases when they have made an arrest.
 
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nfitz said:
What do you mean ... 1040 is about the Queen and Tim Horton's.
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Okay this is weird now. The correct post WAS 1040 about 5 minutes ago. I think that the mods must be at work cleaning up the thread and deleting earlier posts causing the numbering to change.
 
This news network seems to provide a different slant from the Tory propaganda networks we have in Toronto.
[video=youtube;0hQ_8Rgoht4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hQ_8Rgoht4[/video]
I haven't seen it posted anywhere else in this thread.

Harper was the person in charge, and it's time put the blame where it belongs.
 
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Waitwaitwait, why would we have Black Ops agents inside the country? Firstly, Black Ops is only used when you're doing politically intolerable things, and for that reason there usually has to be a pretty substantial case for doing such thing. I hate Harper as much as the next guy (and I wouldn't put it past him if there was actual evidence,) but is he really going to be paying a CSIS agent (though I'd assume they'd have to loan from the CIA, CSIS probably not having conducted a black ops ever,) to destroy government property so he can fail to crack down on people actually causing damage and instead just round up a bunch of peaceful guys and then just let them out a day later?

You have to get into the really evil mindset for this. If you were actually trying to silence the deviant masses, you'd have to plant a number of agents in the crowd, then order police to march up. Then, you'd use your black ops guys to attack the police, and call in a larger amount of the force away from the security zone. Then, you'd get two or three of your black ops agents to lead part of the rioting crowd away towards the security zone, and get your police to double back just before they start bashing down the barricade and flooding through into the convention centre, having the remaining security personnel desperately beating back the rioting masses from the world leaders. Then, you arrest everyone in the security zone, get some of your black ops agents to open fire on the police, dispersing the crowd, and wounding or killing a police officer. Then, you just sit back and watch as the police carry away thousands of people that may or may not be deemed a serious security threat, and simply plant evidence on them and use the huge mass of it all to get as many dissidents as you can out of the way. And then you crown yourself king of The North and liquidate the population of Toronto into slaving their lives working in the oil sands.

That obviously hasn't happened, so either Harper doesn't have a good creative thinking department, or it's just a stupid guy trying to make his balls feel big. And considering there weren't any other "black ops agents" and the creativity involved in liberal attack ads, we can be sure that it wasn't a black operation, and the conservative creative thinking department is certainly capable of such a convoluted, messy and unaesthetic plan.
 
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