G-20 Summit in Toronto

[arvelomcquaig]

tkip, “what you think” doesn't matter. It's proven in the links I provided that police did much more than simply “toss asses in jail.” Singing Oh Canada and sitting down in a demonstration of peace, for instance, is NOT “causing shit.” And if you are STILL unaware of the hundreds of videos and photographs of the police attacks, I have no idea where you've been up until now.

 

[picard102]

What about this one, in particular

Shooting powder at someone isn't abuse.

tSinging Oh Canada and sitting down in a demonstration of peace, for instance, is NOT “causing shit.”

It is if you were told to leave the area.

 

[tkip]

I'm defending the police because the allegations of police brutality, especially with people being detained has zero proof.

Just people's allegations. Just people insisting that once arrested, they were abused and forced to live in horrific conditions. And police moving in on a crowd that doesn't want to cooperate and ignoring several warnings? The day after protestors destroyed property, attacked people, police officers with a lot questionalbe behaviour from bystanders that who didn't help the situation either, like taunting officers and cheering the vandals and violence on.....

What the hell did these people think was going to happen..... If armed police in riot gear ask me to get out of the way or force will be used, I get the hell out of the way. As for pics and videos? Links please because as John Tory said earlier today, I need to see proof of injuries.

 

[GenerationW]

Can't believe that Maoists were prominent at this protest, or that Maoists even exist in Toronto. They disgust me as much Nazis or white supremacists; same sh:t, different pile. And sometimes those idiots are actually the same pile.

 

[GenerationW]

tkip, “what you think†doesn't matter. It's proven in the links I provided that police did much more than simply “toss asses in jail.†Singing Oh Canada and sitting down in a demonstration of peace, for instance, is NOT “causing shit.†And if you are STILL unaware of the hundreds of videos and photographs of the police attacks, I have no idea where you've been up until now.

And who appointed you the final arbiter? If you're a lawyer, take it before a judge. Otherwise, nothing (legally speaking) is "proven", it's only opinion.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I'm defending the police because the allegations of police brutality, especially with people being detained has zero proof. Just people's allegations. Just people insisting that once arrested, they were abused and forced to live in horrific conditions.

What proof do the police have that these things didn't happen?

 

[tkip]

What proof do the police have that these things didn't happen?

You are kidding me, right?

Allegations need to be proven and this means going to court and providing evidence. Telling the media that you were abused isn't proof. Personally I think there was an element among certain protestors to force a showdown with the police, get them to react and once arrests began knowing force would be used, then tried to use this in the media. It seems very orchestrated to me.

But of course this is just an opinion and I have nothing to back it up with.

 

[nfitz]

I'm defending the police because the allegations of police brutality, especially with people being detained has zero proof.

Umm ...

Of tkip, who no one knows who he/she is really ... or Steve Paikin, one of the most trusted reporters in Ontario (whose eye-witness report matches at least one other reporter), who do you think most people are going to believe?

Why do you think Steve Paikin is lying?

 

[Peepers]

To be fair though, it's not clear that there wasn't another option. Remember at a couple of past events in other cities, when police did then all go after this group, the tactic didn't work that, as it was a lure for another group, to then get to the fence and penetrate it. I'm quite sure in hindsight, if the police had known what exactly was going to happen, and when, that they would have had a group of police on Yonge, and another couple on Queen, and tried to trap them all in.

A lot of bad shit happened - and the police need to answer some questions. But I hate to see conspiracy theories be thrown around, when a simple error - human, or strategy, or whatever - is a much simpler explanation.

I don't buy the argument that the police didn't respond to the vandalism because they thought it was a tactic designed to lure them away from the fence. This is nonsense! There were more than enough cops to go around as we all witnessed. Look at the protest on Friday. Thousands of cops shadowed the native protests on cycle, in vans and on horses. They were a highly mobile force (of course they were on their best behavior for the native protests ) . So what happened on Saturday? There is just no plausible explanation for the cops complete failure to respond.

When you look at some of the videos posted you can see that in addition to the massive uniform presence far from the "fence" there were MANY undercover cops as can be seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XgEI5dCrE&feature=player_embedded

Check out the ugly hag charging the cameraman with her billy stick! Notice how All of the cops in this video were more preoccupied with the cameraman then anything else? They did not want their CRIMES to be captured on video.. You also see a masked man dressed in black who the police completely ignore as if he were invisible! He is almost without doubt an undercover cop posing as "black block".

In this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7BFqBEpaQo&feature=player_embedded again we see the cops complete preoccupation with video cameras. The only weapons that they were worried about on that day were the thousands of cameras at the ready to record their crimes. In this video one of the coward cops uses his billy stick to smash the lens of the camera. Can someone explain to me how this kind of conduct by a cop is warranted in a democratic country?

Unfortunately the bullet proof vests worn by the cops concealed their names making hard to identify these criminals.

The police need to answer more than just a few questions.

 

[AKS]

I don't buy the argument that the police didn't respond to the vandalism because they thought it was a tactic designed to lure them away from the fence. This is nonsense! There were more than enough cops to go around as we all witnessed. Look at the protest on Friday. Thousands of cops shadowed the native protests on cycle, in vans and on horses. They were a highly mobile force (of course they were on their best behavior for the native protests ) . So what happened on Saturday? There is just no plausible explanation for the cops complete failure to respond.

Unfortunately, the citizens of Toronto is not on their priority list. Their priority was protecting the VIP and making sure the Black Blocs don't get pass them. (citizens pay the police wage but they're not important enough). It about at least over half an hour before there was retaliation from the police but by that time, it was too late. The black blocs made their way into the crowd to blend in. The police lost control.
It feels like because they lost control, they also lost credibility maybe? So Sunday, they just grabbed everyone they could find. That would show they're doing work. And they can let off steam by beating them up.

For the record. I don't think all policemen are bad. But I don't believe all of them are good either. My parents were coming to visit me on Saturday although I warned them about possible riots. They couldn't get down Spadina because all buses going south were stopped. While walking down Spadina, the policemen probably asked what they were doing there and my parents were told to hurry down before the riot got bad. They took some detours around some streets because they said police were throwing smoke bombs and noise bombs or something. So I am happy they weren't caught in the tangle of things and glad the officer didn't take them in. Some people weren't so lucky.

 

[Peepers]

Unfortunately, the citizens of Toronto is not on their priority list. Their priority was protecting the VIP and making sure the Black Blocs don't get pass them. (citizens pay the police wage but they're not important enough). It about at least over half an hour before there was retaliation from the police but by that time, it was too late. The black blocs made their way into the crowd to blend in. The police lost control.
It feels like because they lost control, they also lost credibility maybe? So Sunday, they just grabbed everyone they could find. That would show they're doing work. And they can let off steam by beating them up.

Again it was not a question of priorities. There were 20,000 cops in town. There were more than enough to go around! At the security perimeter where most of the cops were actually safely BEHIND the fence they were not going anywhere for anything. Well outside the secure zone there were thousands of cops both uniform and undercover. They were highly mobile on bikes, in vans, buses, and horse back and yet we do not have one example - captured on video - of a police officer stopping the vandals in the process of committing their crimes! The ONLY resistance that the black block encountered was from bystanders who prevented looting (captured on video that I posted earlier)!

In my opinion the only reason why the cops were not able to stop these people from committing crimes is because they were too busy committing their own crimes.

 

[AKS]

Again it was not a question of priorities. There were 20,000 cops in town. There were more than enough to go around! At the security perimeter where most of the cops were actually safely BEHIND the fence they were not going anywhere for anything. Well outside the secure zone there were thousands of cops both uniform and undercover. They were highly mobile on bikes, in vans, buses, and horse back and yet we do not have one example - captured on video - of a police officer stopping the vandals in the process of committing their crimes! The ONLY resistance that the black block encountered was from bystanders who prevented looting (captured on video that I posted earlier)!

In my opinion the only reason why the cops were not able to stop these people from committing crimes is because they were too busy committing their own crimes.

They were given orders not to do anything and secure the area so the black blocs don't get through. They were following orders.

 

[kettal]

They're protesting the heavy police presence downtown. It's not that hard to figure out really. They're being peaceful. They're singing and dancing. Should the police start attacking people who are singing and dancing? And here I thought we were spending billions of dollars every year to get rid of the Taliban.

They're obviously trying to provoke a response from the police. But the police didn't respond to that particular protest.

 

[tkip]

Umm ...

Of tkip, who no one knows who he/she is really ... or Steve Paikin, one of the most trusted reporters in Ontario (whose eye-witness report matches at least one other reporter), who do you think most people are going to believe?

Why do you think Steve Paikin is lying?

Because Steve Paikin wasn't arrested as far as I know of and he couldn't have known the conditions or treatment of people being arrested and detained. I still question what actual happened and why people thought it was a good idea to stage a protest in such a manner with clear defiance of the police less than 24 hrs after the violence and destruction on sat.

Other radio talk show hosts discussing the weekend situation never once while I was listening, mentioned Steve being arrested or detained or testifying to seeing people being brutalized, especially innocent bystanders strolling down the streets.

Either I'm getting conflicting and erroneous reports or something doesn't add up with this whole police brutality story. Listen, if the police are found to be guilty of abuse in this, then I'll eat my words. I still however have this suspicion that someone was hoping to provoke the police into acting and using force to then try and discredit them in the media later.

There is something about this entire affair that doesn't add up. The police had to know they were being filmed, so why go on a rampage and attack people indescriminately in the streets?

 

[Peepers]

They were given orders not to do anything and secure the area so the black blocs don't get through. They were following orders.

Not that I believe anything he says but Bill Blair denies that there was an order to "stand-down". I agree a command was probably given not to do anything but not for the reason that resources were needed to secure the "fence". Again there were more than enough cops to go around. Bill Blair needed and wanted this rampage to justify the suspension of civil liberaties that he requested and was given. Its as simple as that.