G-20 Summit in Toronto

[toraerach]

That video is enough to turn me into a fascist. Can somebody please try to explain to me just what issues these spoiled children were 'protesting'? And how this display is to be considered, in any way, the exercising of one's legitimate right to demonstration? That the collective age among them looks to be fourteen is probably all the explanation needed...

They're protesting the heavy police presence downtown. It's not that hard to figure out really. They're being peaceful. They're singing and dancing. Should the police start attacking people who are singing and dancing? And here I thought we were spending billions of dollars every year to get rid of the Taliban.

And as someone who's expressed their admiration for the Canadian Forces and Canada's military history in other threads, to even joke about fascism in such a trivial case is profoundly disrespectful to those who were killed fighting fascism - those who were killed so that people had a right to political dissent, and a right to sing and dance in the streets. Are they provoking the cops? No. They're not throwing things at them and there's no violence on their part. It's a couple kids bringing humour to an otherwise tense situation. Good for them.

 

[E.B.]

How do you arrest and detain people for simply wearing black clothing??? We've got people here talking about civil rights being broken in the middle of a violent riot and police are expected to arrest people simply for the clothes that they wear??? Black Bloc were intent on bringing down the security fence, that's been their m.o. since Seattle 1999, it is reasonable to think that the police belived that the rioting and looting was an attempt to draw police away from the fence. The police were there to defend the perimiter fence and that's what they did.

I think what's coming out of this is that future summits are going to need police both for the perimeter fence and to patrol the surrounding areas stopping those violent idiots as the commit their crimes. If you think 1 billion was a lot...

I can hear the comments now:
-Police state
-Fascism
-etc

"How do you arrest and detain people for simply wearing black clothing???"

It's easy, when they're wearing a something to cover their face, lighting a car on fire, smashing windows in front of you, you arrest them.

"Black Bloc were intent on bringing down the security fence, that's been their m.o. since Seattle 1999, it is reasonable to think that the police belived that the rioting and looting was an attempt to draw police away from the fence."

So the police should only review plans on the m.o. of the Black Bloc's 11 yr old tactics? Really.

"The police were there to defend the perimiter fence and that's what they did." and "future summits are going to need police both for the perimeter fence and to patrol the surrounding areas stopping those violent idiots"

I already answered this, the police stated that they had the responsibility to protect the public as well, and that's why they needed 15 - 20 thousand officers on duty. They had enough to do both, and were supposed to do both. The RCMP were specifically responsible for the fence and the Police were to assist them and protect the public as well. Are you trying to say that the Toronto P.D. only needed to protect the fence and abandon the rest of the city?

 

[Tewder]

They're protesting the heavy police presence downtown. It's not that hard to figure out really. They're being peaceful. They're singing and dancing. Should the police start attacking people who are singing and dancing? And here I thought we were spending billions of dollars every year to get rid of the Taliban.

I don't have a problem with protesting the police presence but this display was not aimed at the the democratic leaders that commissioned their presence, it is aimed at civil servants doing their job which is simply misguided, as I said. Again, there was plenty of opportunity for 'singing and dancing' in Queen's Park and other parts of the city if misguided 'protestors' hadn't decided to abuse their 'rights' and hijack the day through violence and lawlessness.

And as someone who's expressed their admiration for the Canadian Forces and Canada's military history in other threads, to even joke about fascism in such a trivial case is profoundly disrespectful to those who were killed fighting fascism - those who were killed so that people had a right to political dissent, and a right to sing and dance in the streets. Are they provoking the cops? No. They're not throwing things at them and there's no violence on their part. It's a couple kids bringing humour to an otherwise tense situation. Good for them.

So the right to sing and dance in Toronto is so endangered? Obviously not. Quite frankly this is an insult to those who died for our freedoms, as well as an insult to those who are hired to protect them.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

For those who are somehow ignorant of the abuses and general behaviour of the (riot) police (surely because you were away from downtown during the weekend), here are some videos, and here.

 

[coco]

I think a lot of people screwed up -- both the public, everyday citizen and Ottawa. A lot of stuff doesn't bother me but they really violated people's rights and clearly they are doing everything in their power to avoid having to answer to the general public. The United Nations website has a good page that describes the universal declaration of human rights. Article 9,"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile" was clearly violated but sadly Bill Blair sees otherwise.

I really thought the G-20 would be good for Canada but in the end is there anything that we gained from it? Worldwide bad press, burned cop cars, broken store windows, tension between the public and the police. It just wasn't worth it.

 

[nfitz]

For those who are somehow ignorant of the abuses and general behaviour of the (riot) police (surely because you were away from downtown during the weekend), here are some videos, and here.

I looked at some of these, and I really didn't see much in terms of abuse. I then tried to pick out the ones which sounded the worst, and I really didn't see anything that was that shocking. I'm not saying there wasn't abuse ... there was, and it's been documented, but these videos don't really capture it. Perhaps you could point to one or two in particular? Time stamps would be useful, some are very long.

 

[nfitz]

Last Saturday while Torontos' coward cops stood idly by and allowed a small group of thugs to vandalize 100's of stores ...

To be fair though, it's not clear that there wasn't another option. Remember at a couple of past events in other cities, when police did then all go after this group, the tactic didn't work that, as it was a lure for another group, to then get to the fence and penetrate it. I'm quite sure in hindsight, if the police had known what exactly was going to happen, and when, that they would have had a group of police on Yonge, and another couple on Queen, and tried to trap them all in.

A lot of bad shit happened - and the police need to answer some questions. But I hate to see conspiracy theories be thrown around, when a simple error - human, or strategy, or whatever - is a much simpler explanation.

 

[picard102]

For those who are somehow ignorant of the abuses and general behaviour of the (riot) police (surely because you were away from downtown during the weekend), here are some videos, and here.

Be cool if you posted links to videos that had some sort of abuse.

 

[tkip]

Polarized...

There are a lot of accusations flying in all directions right now.

Do I think the police maybe might have committed some questionable acts? Possibly. Do I doubt the accusations of people involved with the protests, mischief and questionable acts and who might have a possible biased against authority, meaning the police, crying foul? Yeah.

Do I think people went down there, completely underestimated the situation while thinking it was a cool free event, were then completely unprepared as shit started to hit the fan and instead lashed out against the police later rather than admit their own part in the events? Yeah.

I know some are trying to take things out of context to justify blaming the police with allegations and instead seem intent on turning a blind eye to their own behaviour and that of others during the protests. I will wait until a proper investigation is conducted before passing judgement but I find it very unlikely that cops were attacking, abusing, sexually assaulting, mistreating indescriminately against people just out for stroll.

But we do however have tremendous evidence that so many of the protestors and bystanders just took advantage of the situation over the weekend and acted up. Like it was some kind of street party or something.

This is how I interpret what happened over the weekend........

 

[arvelomcquaig]

How are you missing the police brutality in these videos? Have you watched any of them? It's mind-boggling. Does running people over with horses, hitting people in the face with shields, breaking fingers and cutting faces, pushing older women, shooting things at a peaceful protestors' face, etc. not seem at all problematic to you?

What about this one, in particular, or Steve Paikin's account (that is, as well as almost every video in the previous links).

 

[Second_in_pie]

I don't think anyone's denying that there were some bad apples in the protesters this weekend. But I think we should expect our police to treat these people as special cases and be precise in their actions. What we saw this weekend, mass arrests, detainment and retaliation against many peaceful, innocent people, is not the kind of service I'd like to see from the people that are supposed to be representatives of justice.

And this defence that the police were provoked by protesters brings up another point, that's totally unreliant on the protester's parts. By saying that the police retaliated against things like curses and insults directed against them and defending them for that is absurd. By saying that, you're putting the police officers in charge of this event on the same moral ground as the violent protesters this weekend. Shouldn't our police turn the other cheek unless violently acted upon? I myself would much prefer calm, clear-headed peacekeepers as exemplified by Pte. Cloutier in that great photo from the Oka crisis, rather than instable people who have to retaliate violently at very light verbal abuse (made even lighter if the people doing this abuse is actually at such a lower moral ground.)

 

[nfitz]

How are you missing the police brutality in these videos?

Personally? Because I only watched about 5 minutes of the 2-hours or so you linked. No one is saying it didn't happen ... we know stuff happened. Steve Paikin's account for example proved that there was a very simple beating of a prisoner already in custody, and not fighting (and while only one account, it's hard to think that the only case of police beating one of a 1,000 prisoners, just happened to be someone reporting for a major newspaper, and just so happened to be witnessed by a very well-respected journalist).

All we are saying, is that you need to be specific. URL and the timestamp would be perfect.

 

[AKS]

Apparently, people seem to believe two wrongs make a right. And if there's 100 Negro causes trouble, every single one are bad. If they weren't bad, they shouldn't be living in the same neighbourhood.

btw for those who think it was easy to escape by taking the subway. I heard the subways were shut down south of Bloor just before the riots broke out. The buses were stopped as well. No buses going south of certain streets (eg. spadina). This wasn't pre-announced. It was done last minute.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

“I find it very unlikely that cops were attacking, abusing, sexually assaulting, mistreating indescriminately”

Are you suggesting that it is reasonable for protestors, even the few vandals, to be attacked, abused, sexually assaulted, and mistreated by the police? Why are you so adamantly defending the police? Were you anywhere near any of these protests this weekend? I attended three of the G20 protests, though only the tame, brief, and peripheral ones (Friday, Sunday, & Monday). I am not purely criticising the police; I think the behaviour of many protestors was idiotic (and should've been prevented by the police, who were busy tormenting the many good protestors). I had to leave the first protest I attended because I didn't want to associate with the protestors that were surrounding me.

However, it is abundantly clear that while the black bloc were breaking some windows of chain stores this weekend and juvenile protestors were destroying some police cars (that they were inexplicably [ostensibly deliberately] left to them by the police), the police assaulted, tormented, and/or violated rights of hundreds of people, and made the downtown core terrifying and miserable for thousands.

 

[tkip]

What I'm more interested in are the events leading up the police acting.

I listend to John Tory today and agreed with his view on allegations of police brutality. Where is the proof especially of people just out strolling and police suddenly without provacatoin attacking and trying to beat them into submission? Why hasn't anyone posted pics and videos on youtube after these attacks to show off evidence of police brutality? I haven't heard any of this happening.

I'll tell you what I think. I think a lot of bratty people went out, caused shit, wouldn't lilsten and ignored warnings from police in riot gear the day after violence committed by protestors, with bystanders abusing the police and once they got their assed tossed in jail, are now crying and playing the blame game.