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Finch West Line 6 LRT

They were promising 22 or 23 when the LRTs were being planned. I assume the difference is in signal priority. Now it comes to light Doug wants to ban bike lanes if they replace a fossil fuel burning vehicle lane. Are we surprised to learn these things the same day?
 
innsertnamehere said:
the travel time keeps increasing. I thought the line was designed for a 28-minute travel time?

34 minutes means an average speed of just 18.5km/h..
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At this point we'd have been better of having built bus lanes along Finch ala Kingston st, style.

"It's faster than buses stuck in rush hour traffic."
Yeah, so? Was it worth the billions of dollars just to shave a couple minutes off a trip during rush hour?

"LRTs have higher capacity than a bus."
So we got a lot of people not going anywhere fast.
 
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Bojaxs said:
At this point we'd have been better of having built bus lanes along Finch ala Kingston st, style.

"It's faster than buses stuck in rush hour traffic."
Yeah, so? Was it worth the billions of dollars just to shave a couple minutes off a trip during rush hour?

"LRTs have higher capacity than a bus."
So we got a lot of people not going anywhere fast.
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The problem with the CIty of Toronto's planning processes of the last decade has been that 0 decision making has been made based on travel times. It's all "capacity" and "safety" based decision making priorities which are well and good but resulting in push back as seen in the Province's potential bike lane ban because these things haven't been duly considered.

a minute here, a minute there, a seemingly small sacrifice in each case worthy of the safety or capacity increase. The problem is that a minute here a minute there multiplied across hundreds of similar decisions results in a city with infrastructure where you can never travel faster much quicker than walking speed.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The problem with the CIty of Toronto's planning processes of the last decade has been that 0 decision making has been made based on travel times. It's all "capacity" and "safety" based decision making priorities which are well and good but resulting in push back as seen in the Province's potential bike lane ban because these things haven't been duly considered.

a minute here, a minute there, a seemingly small sacrifice in each case worthy of the safety or capacity increase. The problem is that a minute here a minute there multiplied across hundreds of similar decisions results in a city with infrastructure where you can never travel faster much quicker than walking speed.
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It's not just Toronto. It's Ontario wide. I rode the ION for the first time last weekend, and I was less than impressed with it. Long stretches of the line we didn't go more than 15km/h. The worst offending part of the track being at the intersection of Courtland Ave E & Hayward Ave. The train travelled so slow I thought there was something wrong and assumed we were coming to a stop.

20240915_210533.jpgScreenshot_20240920_121925_Speedometer.jpgScreenshot_20240920_121955_Speedometer.jpg

And now they want to scrap the 403 bridge for the Hamilton LRT and implement two 90 degree turns at Dundurn. And people are claiming this won't negatively impact travel time. Of course it will.

What's the point of "capacity" if the transit is slow and people will be opt to drive instead because it's quicker? The Finch LRT won't be able to compete with driving during non-rush hours.
 
Bojaxs said:
It's not just Toronto. It's Ontario wide. I rode the ION for the first time last weekend, and I was less than impressed with it. Long stretches of the line we didn't go more than 15km/h. The worst offending part of the track being at the intersection of Courtland Ave E & Hayward Ave. The train travelled so slow I thought there was something wrong and assumed we were coming to a stop.

View attachment 597588View attachment 597589View attachment 597590

And now they want to scrap the 403 bridge for the Hamilton LRT and implement two 90 degree turns at Dundurn. And people are claiming this won't negatively impact travel time. Of course it will.

What's the point of "capacity" if the transit is slow and people will be opt to drive instead because it's quicker? The Finch LRT won't be able to compete with driving during non-rush hours.
Click to expand...

I mean there are many commutes along line 1 and 2 where its faster to drive outside of rush hour. This line increases the viability of living without a car in north Toronto and that's still a win, even if it isn't the fastest option.
 
Bojaxs said:
It's not just Toronto. It's Ontario wide. I rode the ION for the first time last weekend, and I was less than impressed with it. Long stretches of the line we didn't go more than 15km/h. The worst offending part of the track being at the intersection of Courtland Ave E & Hayward Ave. The train travelled so slow I thought there was something wrong and assumed we were coming to a stop.

View attachment 597588View attachment 597589View attachment 597590

And now they want to scrap the 403 bridge for the Hamilton LRT and implement two 90 degree turns at Dundurn. And people are claiming this won't negatively impact travel time. Of course it will.

What's the point of "capacity" if the transit is slow and people will be opt to drive instead because it's quicker? The Finch LRT won't be able to compete with driving during non-rush hours.
Click to expand...
Indeed, one of the best ads for the Lakeshore West GO is watching the trains zip by while stopped in traffic. Same would be true if the Finch W (and surface Eg Crosstown) lines were faster than the cars!
 
Bojaxs said:
What's the point of "capacity" if the transit is slow and people will be opt to drive instead because it's quicker? The Finch LRT won't be able to compete with driving during non-rush hours.
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If transit is supposed to be quicker than driving, then they've been doing it wrong for a long long time.
 
Bojaxs said:
It's not just Toronto. It's Ontario wide. I rode the ION for the first time last weekend, and I was less than impressed with it. Long stretches of the line we didn't go more than 15km/h. The worst offending part of the track being at the intersection of Courtland Ave E & Hayward Ave. The train travelled so slow I thought there was something wrong and assumed we were coming to a stop.

View attachment 597588View attachment 597589View attachment 597590

And now they want to scrap the 403 bridge for the Hamilton LRT and implement two 90 degree turns at Dundurn. And people are claiming this won't negatively impact travel time. Of course it will.

What's the point of "capacity" if the transit is slow and people will be opt to drive instead because it's quicker? The Finch LRT won't be able to compete with driving during non-rush hours.
Click to expand...
They are really designed for people that don’t have a car or just don’t drive though. The LRT in Waterloo is highly used and it’s always faster to drive with a car in the city.

The Fitch LRT is similar as I doubt it’s really going to take many cars off the road but will move a lot of people that aren’t going to drive anyways. The real question should have been if a BRT system would have been better.
 
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LairdOfTheNorth said:
The Fitch LRT is similar as I doubt it’s really going to take many cars off the road but will move a lot of people that aren’t going to drive anyways. The real question should have been if a BRT system would have been better.
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See, this is what happens when these LRT's approach their "eventual" completion. The goal posts start shifting.

"It was never meant to be rapid."
"It won't take many cars off the road"

Fairly certain I can pull up older documentation, assessments and promotional pieces from the early 2010's specifically stating these were the goals of this project.

I mentioned BRT, but then people respond back with the "capacity" issue.
 
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