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News Roundup for September 4, 2024
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Finch West Line 6 LRT

T3G said:
The name doesn't include the word subway. I have only ever heard them referred to as rapid transit/LRT lines. Nevertheless, it's important to set our expectations based on what the project actually is rather than whatever marketing wank Metrolinx trots out.

That being said, a vehicle operating in its own right way of is inherently faster than the status quo, which is a bus without private lanes. And if expecting a local transit vehicle to outpace a car is the parameter by which the success of a transit project is judged, there are many transit lines that could be considered failures.
Click to expand...
The entire conceit of Transit City, especially with how officials marketed the project as well as LRT as a whole, was that LRT was nearly just as good and effective as subways, all whilst coming in at a fraction of the cost. In fact as recently as 2 years ago, we saw David Miller parrot these exact ideas, that the Ontario Line being a metro is a boondoggle, and that the project should be an LRT that will somehow provide the same level of service at a lower cost. The fact that the LRT lines are referred to as "Line 5" and "Line 6" is a statement that Metrolinx (and by extension the city) view the services as comparable/equivalent to what is offered by Lines 1, 2, and 4.

In fact, looking at official maps the TTC has made for future plans (I couldn't find a high quality version of this online), the implication is quite clear.
1725474308815.png

Nowhere on this map does it mention that Eglinton and Finch West are "LRT" lines - the lines are exclusively shown as "Eglinton" and "Finch West". The lines have the same width, and the stations use the exact same dots - there is visibly nothing that distinguishes these lines from the subway, other than maybe the fact that stops are slightly closer together on the surface sections (and even then, its barely noticeable). In fact, not even the blurb at the bottom mentions that its an "LRT", it just calls it a rapid transit route. Anyone who isn't familiar with the system at all would look at this map, and (rightfully) think that Lines 5 and 6 are just regular subway lines, no different in terms of service or speed to Lines 1, 2, or 4. So if Metrolinx and the TTC want to pretend that its equivalent to a subway line, then I think its more than reasonable to criticize these lines by that standard. If the city wants us to judge this line by the standards of a semi-rapid local line, they should've just called it the 536, and considered it part of the Streetcar Network like the 512.
 
Dan416 said:
I like how some maps I've seen, people have shown the grade-separated parts of Eglinton, for instance, the same as the subway lines, and the at-grade sections in a skinnier line to illustrate that the level of service is different. I think that makes some intuitive sense.
Click to expand...
Fantasy maps perhaps. I don't recall any real maps like that.

ARG1 said:
The entire conceit of Transit City, especially with how officials marketed the project as well as LRT as a whole, was that LRT was nearly just as good and effective as subways, all whilst coming in at a fraction of the cost.
Click to expand...
It's still a fraction of the cost. Of course costs have risen for both types. That doesn't mean that surface LRT like Line 6 is now the same price as subway.

And Line 6 has certainly gone in faster than the subway sections of Line 5.
 
nfitz said:
Fantasy maps perhaps. I don't recall any real maps like that.
Click to expand...
In fairness to Metrolinx, I think there is an official map like that. I can't seem to find a picture of it (although I I recall it existing), but it was a combined TTC+GO Map that I saw at Finch GO Bus Terminal a few years ago, that showed the surface section of Line 5 as a sort of 2 tone line, similar to how TFL represents non-tube lines/services on the tube map (Something like this):
1725476953605.png

nfitz said:
It's still a fraction of the cost. Of course costs have risen for both types. That doesn't mean that surface LRT like Line 6 is now the same price as subway.

And Line 6 has certainly gone in faster than the subway sections of Line 5.
Click to expand...
The issue I'm raising isn't the "whilst coming in at a fraction of the cost" but rather the "LRT was nearly just as good and effective as subways" part.
 
ARG1 said:
The issue I'm raising isn't the "whilst coming in at a fraction of the cost" but rather the "LRT was nearly just as good and effective as subways" part.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see.

I don't recall that being said though. The argument was, as far as I remember, that traffic is going to get a lot worse on the suburban arteries in the next couple of decades. But other than the central section of Eglinton (and south of Danforth on Pape), it doesn't support subway - but for a lot less money, we can build this now, to keep people moving later.

(and by the time the EA process was killed by Ford, it had become clear that south of Eglinton, or at least Leaside) on Don Mills was going to be a problem with LRT)

Ah ... hollow lines - I might have seen that in a figure showing where the underground versus surface track was. But I don't think it was meant as wayfinding.
 
Dan416 said:
I like how some maps I've seen, people have shown the grade-separated parts of Eglinton, for instance, the same as the subway lines, and the at-grade sections in a skinnier line to illustrate that the level of service is different. I think that makes some intuitive sense.
Click to expand...
Yea, this would be my preferred method. Show the lines on the subway map with stations identified, but have a narrower line thickness for the surface sections.
 
ARG1 said:
In fairness to Metrolinx, I think there is an official map like that. I can't seem to find a picture of it (although I I recall it existing), but it was a combined TTC+GO Map that I saw at Finch GO Bus Terminal a few years ago, that showed the surface section of Line 5 as a sort of 2 tone line, similar to how TFL represents non-tube lines/services on the tube map (Something like this):View attachment 593819

The issue I'm raising isn't the "whilst coming in at a fraction of the cost" but rather the "LRT was nearly just as good and effective as subways" part.
Click to expand...

nfitz said:
Ah, I see.

I don't recall that being said though. The argument was, as far as I remember, that traffic is going to get a lot worse on the suburban arteries in the next couple of decades. But other than the central section of Eglinton (and south of Danforth on Pape), it doesn't support subway - but for a lot less money, we can build this now, to keep people moving later.

(and by the time the EA process was killed by Ford, it had become clear that south of Eglinton, or at least Leaside) on Don Mills was going to be a problem with LRT)

Ah ... hollow lines - I might have seen that in a figure showing where the underground versus surface track was. But I don't think it was meant as wayfinding.
Click to expand...

FMNaA9GX0AEEvjF.jpg


I had saved this back in 2022, from a Metrolinx blog post which can't be found on the web today - if I recall correctly, it was an article discussing how each station would have touchscreen wayfinding displays with that map presumably shown.

Edit: found a Twitter post with the content:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496138480547778564

And a higher resolution version of the image can be found here:

 
Last edited:
Sept 4
Was planning on doing some videos and photographing on the weekend, but got side track. Did some today and a mesh from Islington to Martin Grove as it was a single lane with the westbound traffic using the eastbound lane due to paving. The westbound traffic was gridlock with cars making a left turn at Martin Grove.

Lots of intersections and patch work as well the bike lanes still to be pave. Paving should be done by the end of the month.

As usual, no LRV's out as cable work for the underground was taking place in a few areas, A number of areas have large red painted across the full width of the ROW.

Saw a lot of pedestrians crossing mid block and expect to see the same once the line opens.

From my travels this summer and in the past, all tram systems run at street speed limit even in an ROW unless fully fence off. Rode a true LRT in its own ROW with stops far apart in the US this summer, and it wasn't fast as it should be. No idea when the videos and photos will be on line as I am working on Aug 16 photos now, with 15 more days that still need to be worked on.
 
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