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Finch West Line 6 LRT

doady said:
Finch is not dense enough for capacity to be an issue if service is split between two lines (the hydro corridor and street itself).

IMO, it is not an issue of what is better, BRT or LRT, but what is better for Finch? Considering the current GO busway plans, and especially considering the lack of potential "avenues" development along Finch, the LRT option, even in the hydro corridor, doesn't make much sense to me.

If the city is so adamant about building LRT, why not build a line along Wilson (a true "avenue")? Or upgrade the east-west downtown streetcar lines? There is no need for an LRT line along Finch, let alone Sheppard and Morningside (don't me started on those).
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LRT on Finch is justified by the current ridership counts, even without major new developments.

As of Wilson, perhaps there are (un-announced yet) plans to extend Sheppard subway along Wilson (in the longer term, rather than in the current round of transit expansion). If the development potential along Wilson is so good ... plus that line would get an interchange with the U-S line, and eventually might even reach Pearson.
 
With BRT service, in order to provide the capacity that is needed for the transit city lines, it would need passing lanes at stops to provide a mix of local and express service. Most streets are to narrow to do this, so LRT would at least be necessary to handle the capasity.
 
doady said:
If GO were to build a busway or rail line through the hydro corridor, it would take a lot of ridership away from the current Finch bus.
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A busway would.

A rail line would likely be inter-regional, with stops just at Yonge, Keele / new subway, and perhaps where the hydro corridor crosses Finch just west of Weston Rd. The frequency would be once in 20 or 30 min. So, the passenger body mostly distinct from that of the local Finch route.
 
Rainforest said:
A busway would.

A rail line would likely be inter-regional, with stops just at Yonge, Keele / new subway, and perhaps where the hydro corridor crosses Finch just west of Weston Rd. The frequency would be once in 20 or 30 min. So, the passenger body mostly distinct from that of the local Finch route.
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A rail line could have both local and express/regional service, just like the busway.
 
The distance between Finch Avenue and the hydro right-of-way is approximately between 361 and 388 m. The distance between spaces on the LRT is around 500 m. However, riders would only walk to the closest stop which would be 250 m or less. Adding another 350+ m (total 800+ m) just to get to a LRT stop on the hydro right-of-way would be a grueling walk, especially for a senior carrying packages bought on a store fronting on Finch.

If we want pedestrian avenues, the LRT should be convenient to use. Why do motorists try to park as close to a mall entrance as possible, and not far from the entrance? Same reason for having the LRT on Finch Avenue itself.
 
I think that, with few exceptions, the stop spacing should be every 1km, or even at every major intersection. Every 500 m is a little overboard on a suburban arterial (like, do we need a stop at Chesswood and Alness?). In some cases, it may pay off to have a stop every 500 m or so, like at Jane, Tobermory, Sentinel and Keele, but there aren't too many places on Finch where this is really warranted.
 
For every person who'd have a longer walk to a vehicle in the hydro corridor, there's another person who is already walking 300m to get to Finch and so would save time if the line ran in the hydro field. With potentially improved travel times, though, those on the south side who'd have to walk farther could still benefit. Not that this EA will be concerned with such things as travel time, mind you.
 
Travel times? What business of the TTC is that? Their job is getting you from A to B to C to D. And getting there in the most convoluted way possible. Besides, transfers are good. They keep you awake and alert. Who wants to fall asleep on their one-seat ride from point A to B?
 
Hipster Duck said:
I think that, with few exceptions, the stop spacing should be every 1km, or even at every major intersection. Every 500 m is a little overboard on a suburban arterial (like, do we need a stop at Chesswood and Alness?). In some cases, it may pay off to have a stop every 500 m or so, like at Jane, Tobermory, Sentinel and Keele, but there aren't too many places on Finch where this is really warranted.
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The TTC asked this same question during the planning for the Sheppard LRT. I believe the difference between 800 metre spacing and 400 metre spacing was something like seven minutes of travel time. I think that would probably stand true for 500 m vs. 1000 m as well. Providing a good local service is more important than getting people from the end of the line to the subway in a small time less.
 
the differece in travel time for sheppard was actually only 5 minutes for end to end, for most riders the small increase in speed would be more than offset by a longer walk to a station,
 
W. K. Lis said:
If we want pedestrian avenues, the LRT should be convenient to use. Why do motorists try to park as close to a mall entrance as possible, and not far from the entrance? Same reason for having the LRT on Finch Avenue itself.
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"Pedestrian avenues" is not the goal of Transit City, otherwise the map might have overlapped with "the Avenues" plan a lot more. There would be lines for Wilson and Lawrence East instead of Morningside and Finch. And the Sheppard line would terminate at SCC instead continuing further east along Sheppard.
 
Voltz said:
the differece in travel time for sheppard was actually only 5 minutes for end to end, for most riders the small increase in speed would be more than offset by a longer walk to a station,
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Most riders would not have a longer walk and most of those who would have a longer walk would only walking like 100m or maybe 200m further.
 
Panzerfaust said:
The TTC asked this same question during the planning for the Sheppard LRT. I believe the difference between 800 metre spacing and 400 metre spacing was something like seven minutes of travel time. I think that would probably stand true for 500 m vs. 1000 m as well. Providing a good local service is more important than getting people from the end of the line to the subway in a small time less.
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P-faust,

The TTC should then objectively ask itself which one it's gonna be:

a) frequent, fast, through-service

or,

b) frequent, albeit slow local service.

We can't have it both ways and the TTC seems to be opting for option B. Thing is, we already have frequent, albeit slow local service in the form of buses. Essentially, what I'm saying is that this line, like all Transit City lines, isn't really changing the way people move around this city, they're only putting them in streetcars.
 
doady said:
"Pedestrian avenues" is not the goal of Transit City, otherwise the map might have overlapped with "the Avenues" plan a lot more. There would be lines for Wilson and Lawrence East instead of Morningside and Finch. And the Sheppard line would terminate at SCC instead continuing further east along Sheppard.
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Pedestrian avenues is a key goal of Transit City, and if you read the public information boards for the Sheppard East LRT EA you'll find that official plan amendments are also being sent to council to bring the transit plan and the development plan into sync.

Also, Mayor Miller has said that transit city is only the first step in a plan to bring some form of higher-order transit to each transit priority corridor in the city. This will eventually mean Wilson and Lawrence, in addition to bringing Jane & Don Mills south into the core.

You'll have to ask the mayor why one line is considered a priority over another.
 
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