Finch West Line 6 LRT

[Steve X]

Why have a tap system? Why not have a sensor that if you don't have some sort of POP it alerts a plain clothes TTC fare enforcement person who simply walks up to you and hands you the fine and removes you at the next stop. That technology likely is already in use somewhere.

It won't work well in Canada. There's a court that decides if you actually need to pay the fine. You also have the ability to "illegally" refuse to show ID and run. Unless the fare officers can arrest you once you're off TTC property, they can't do much. The already found that out when fare inspectors decided to hand out tickets on streetcars, those who stayed got a ticket. Those to ran away didn't get one. So someone who can't tap cause the reader broke got screwed while the real fare evaders got away safely.

A faregate would simply reduce all this trouble and force everyone to pay without the hassle of hiring highly paid officers.

 

[ARG1]

Similarly the Crosstown stations don't have faregates in the rendering but TTC has successfully got ML to install faregates at every underground station. That fare machine could be just a reloading machine like they have at TTC stations.

I highly doubt they'll let people onto the platform without paying at such a busy station. I really hope they'll force people to tap out with a vending machine inside in case they "forget" to buy a fare.

Except they did. Maybe not in the photo renders, but in the Mt. Dennis station walkthrough they showed fare gates. Furthermore, none of the underground station renders showed on platform fare machines, meanwhile this one does.

 

[Allandale25]

Always great to see pictures with track in them.

https://www.facebook.com/219111325585945/posts/950318682465202

 

[superelevation]

A bus line doesn't bring reliability nor development. I think glorified streetcars are great for suburb development minus the fact that the transportation department won't grant it transit priority. If people stop going half way across the city and instead stay in their neighbourhood, we won't need the so called "fast" transit. If the surface section is able to develop the Golden Miles strip, I would say that is a success.

Personally I think grid systems are the worst. They should just build a diagonal line like the Expo line in Vancouver.

See this is sort of the problem, development can be had with BRT and so can reliability, but at a MUCH lower cost. Re. not crossing the city, that's just counter to the way Toronto has been developing for years, the Downtown core has ballooned and other major development areas like LV and the Portlands are on the Shoulders of Downtown. Local trips are good but so much simply is only available downtown.

 

[nfitz]

That's why fare inspectors are needed.

That helps - but their presence tends to increase compliance a bit - but leaves those that have no capacity or ability to pay subject to abuse.

That's why they should force people to tap when transferring and exiting from a station. If they do both, this would only leave free riders between surface stops.

No.

That's why transit should be free.

Closer.

The problem with faregates, etc., is that they add to the cost. Recall Vancouver, where the Skytrain didn't have fare gates until recently. And they estimated that the increased revenue from installing fare gates was less than the cost of installing and operating the fare gates.

So where's the benefit?

 

[ARG1]

The problem with faregates, etc., is that they add to the cost. Recall Vancouver, where the Skytrain didn't have fare gates until recently. And they estimated that the increased compliance from installing fare gates would generate less revenue than installing and operating the fare gates.

Wat

 

[nfitz]

Wat

That's what they predicted before they put them in. They seem to have avoided surveying fare compliance since then, because they know the media storm that would occur.

It should be no surprise - they only collect $400 million in revenue a year at Skytrain station, and the gates cost $200 million and it added $20 million a year to operate and maintain them. They already had very clearly painted fare lines, signage, and enforcement.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Reminds me of this commercial from years ago. Still waiting.

 

[ARG1]

That's what they prediceted before they put them in. They seem to have avoided surveying fare compliance since then, because they know the media storm that would occur.

It should be no surprise - they only collect $400 million in revenue a year at Skytrain station, and the gates cost $200 million and it added $20 million a year to operate and maintain them. They already had very clearly painted fare lines, signage, and enforcement.

I'm just pointing out that you basically said "Installing Fare Gates would generate less revenue than Installing Fare Gates"

 

[nfitz]

I'm just pointing out that you basically said "Installing Fare Gates would generate less revenue than Installing Fare Gates"

I said the increased revenue (from installing fare gates). Increased is the verb, not installing. Okay, grammatically clunky and should have said cost somewhere in there ... but I think the meaning was clear.

 

[anb]

It's sad that the surface platforms won't have fare gates, which makes it really easy to ride for free (especially after you transfer onto another line).

Isn’t that like all GO stations and TTC streetcars though? I know there’s some people who ride the streetcar one stop before the subway like for example, Queens Quay to Union, then pick up a transfer receipt from that box because they entered the “fare paid” zone, and then they’re basically all set to go for the entire network without even thinking about a dime or an enforcer. The ttc really needs better enforcement when it comes to these whole fare paid rules because there are clear loopholes around the whole system. Something that could be a continuing problem with the inclusion of both Eglinton and Finch West in the future, and one could get from let’s say stouffville to mount dennis without paying any fare at all.

 

[Allandale25]

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[ProjectEnd]

/\ From that post:

 

[W. K. Lis]

/\ From that post:

The view is towards the southwest.

 

[INTz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1364229843353804805