Thoughtless Miscreant
Active Member
I believe he said it, but it's completely impossible.
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Finch Avenue West: Opportunities for Improved Bus Service
- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
I believe he said it, but it's completely impossible.
Electrify
Senior Member
You are underestimating the walk people already endure through the various cul-du-sacs to get to the bus. Depending on how far out some must walk, an extra 5 minutes may be worth it if they are going a longer distance. As I said, local bus service would continue along Finch. Worst case scenario, one could take a north-south bus route an extra stop north of Finch to get to the route along the hydro corridor.
Justin10000 said:
And on the flip side, the TTC should focus only on making stops so close together, that it becomes tedious and worthless at moving people any kind of distance and is exclusively used as a social-engineering tool to spur high density developments where things are so close together, there is no need to take the bus anyways. I mean, who would ever think of using transit being used to actually transport people across distances too far to walk?
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BoAd
BoAd
There need to be studies after Finch West Station is put into service. That will heavily affect travel patterns of people going from the northwest to downtown.
Things would change once again for travel patterns east once the Sheppard subway is extended to Downsview.
Plus, there's always potential for increased transit use from intensified development around subway stations.
Still, Finch may even have capacity to run bi-articulated busses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bus_Stops_3_curitiba_brasil.jpg
Things would change once again for travel patterns east once the Sheppard subway is extended to Downsview.
Plus, there's always potential for increased transit use from intensified development around subway stations.
Still, Finch may even have capacity to run bi-articulated busses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bus_Stops_3_curitiba_brasil.jpg
Justin10000
Banned
So instead the TTC should focus on making stops so far apart, it becomes a tedious task to walk to a stop, just to accommodate a much smaller number of inter-regional trips. This is the sort of scenario that pushes people to buy cars. What's the point in the fastest trip if a rider has to walk 1km to a stop?
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Thoughtless Miscreant
Active Member
That reduces the chance they'll walk further to get to the bus. People will only walk so far, no matter how fast the transit goes.
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denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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I was on the Finch West yesterday.... it was one LONG bus ride. We need LRT, end of story.
Electrify
Senior Member
No, I'm saying they need to find a cushy medium, about 1 to 2 km between stops. I'd also wager that slow service which takes 3 times longer than driving to get anywhere influences more car purchases than an "unbearable" 10 minute walk to a bus stop. Besides, are we trying to get cars off the road, or pedestrians off the sidewalk?
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
If most of these Finch riders are using it as a feeder route to go somewhere else, the Finch West station and the Sheppard West subway can accommodate these passengers. And for those east of Finch West they can go south instead to connect with the Sheppard Subway.
JWBF
Senior Member
Urban/Suburban Sprawl is the real problem of station spacing, feeding subways/RT/LRTs. On a side note... I was told that transit causes sprawl as well big box malls, any thoughts?
Thoughtless Miscreant
Active Member
2km as a "cushy medium"? Good lord. If we did things that way on Bloor St W the only stops would be Kipling, Royal York, Jane, Keele, Dufferin, Bathurst, and Yonge.
Stop spacing should be around 650-800m generally. 1km should be the upper limit. 2km is just ridiculous. No one is going to walk that far, especially on a hilly suburban street like Finch.
leopetr
Active Member
What transit causes are bursts of development around stations.
I think people who say that are confusing suburbs with sprawl. Suburbs don't necessarily have to be the same thing as sprawl. It's possible to have pedestrian-friendly, compact suburbs.
I'm highly skeptical of any connection between big box stores and transit. Big box stores go where land is cheap.
Justin10000
Banned
1 - 2km is not a cushy medium. Not many riders are not willing to walk that far to a station on a daily basis. Having a station spacing of 500 - 800m will not slow service down, vehicles will still move quickly between stations, and the dwell times could be kept low. You, like many other advocates of speed, and wide station spacing ignore the issue of longer dwell times with fewer stations, and accessibilty. It's a simple fact. Not many people want to walk 10-15minutes one way to a stop. It's simply not convenient. The small time saved with fewer stations out easily lost when you 20-30 minutes walking to a station.
No. It is accessiblilty, and reliability that influences one's decision to use transit, or buy a car. If there is a rapid transit stop within a reasonable walking distance, chances are someone will give transit a shot. But if someone lives between stations that are 1km apart, they may not be enticed to make the trek to the station, especially if it means a 10 minute walk at a normal, leisurely pace on a hilly street.
I am also tired of the driving vs. transit debate. Driving will always be faster than transit. It's a fact. By the time someone gets to their stop, a driver will be well on their way to their destination.
Amy Rose
Active Member
Which is why the 97 Yonge actually exists as it overlaps the subway since the Yonge North extension stations were 2km apart to save money. Efficiency loses as stop distance increases and the higher the need of an overlapping, redundant route goes.
iirc, I had a reply somewhere that it would be illegal from the MTO to have road passenger vehicles with higher passenger capacity than regular artics
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Justin10000
Banned
As with the 85 Sheppard Bus, and I assume the 34 bus route would be retained to overlap the new underground section. It's an inefficient use of resources just to shave a few minutes from the travel time.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The difference between the stop spacing on Sheppard and that planned on Eglinton is that Eglinton only has long spacing when there is negligible demand, whereas the Sheppard subway has long spacing even when there is demand. I think 85 Sheppard mainly serves the large gap between Bayview and Sheppard-Yonge stations (2km). Although the planned stop spacing on Eglinton (1km) is only slightly less than the 1.4km average of the Sheppard Line, Eglinton's number is skewed by some places where it goes a long way without stopping simply because there is no potential ridership between the catchment areas (~400m) of the adjacent stations.
For example:
Between Weston and Keele (1.2km), there is nothing but a parking lot and a park.
Between Brentcliffe and Don Mills (1.8km), there is not much, due to the Don Valley.
If I'm not mistaken, other than those two places the stop spacing is always 1km or under, which seems relatively reasonable.