Fate of the SRT

[DavidH]

Interesting that Metrolinx is also considering a conversion to LRT. It sounds as if they may be working together on this.

 

[Dan416]

From the Transit City Light Rail Plan Status Update October 2008.pdf found on the TTC Report Web Site:

There was also strong support for replacing the SRT with subway, but they conveniently forget to mention this.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

So let's see here, aware that I'm ignoring the subway option altogether, the sequence of events:

1. Existing SRT is approaching end-of-life for its vehicles and is suffering severe capacity issues due to lack of said vehicles.
2. TTC hires Richard Soberman to conduct a study on the future of the SRT, who recommends the retention and upgrade of the existing ALRT technology, and for an extension to Malvern, with capacity increases through more vehicles and larger vehicles. This report is passed by the Commission to great fanfare, stating that the recommended alternative would allow for the development of a Scarborough-wide LRT network.
3. The report stated that LRT did not provide sufficient capacity for the expected volumes on the line.
4. Eglinton Crosstown announced as part of Transit City as LRT.
5. Metrolinx begins its RTP process, rumours abound on classification of Eglinton as Metro. TTC is supposedly angry that the LRT may be upped to something else... so Metrolinx backs off and classfies Eglinton under the omnibus "Other Rapid Transit" category.
6. TTC now looks at backing from ALRT for SRT and conversion of the line to LRT

So basically, it's as if the TTC has such a hardon for LRT technology on Eglinton that they are willing to go against the recommendations of their own previous study that said LRT was not good enough for the SRT corridor. And it's also saying that the TTC will willingly provide insufficient capacity on the SRT corridor just to keep Eglinton LRT. And all this despite what I perceive as a willingness by Metrolinx to invest more money in Eglinton to build ALRT/subway/etc. to create a true regional east-west link. All I have to say is... WTF.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Sorry, a correction, the Soberman SRT report didn't say no LRT. From the SRT Report, under conclusions:

4. With higher capital investment and a considerably longer disruption of service due to construction, conversion of the existing Scarborough RT to a multiple unit LRT technology offers greater potential for overall system expansion, consistent with the transit priority goals reflected in the City of Toronto’s Official Plan, the TTC’s Ridership Growth Strategy and the joint TTC/City Building a Transit City plan

5. There is considerable risk, however, that a decision to proceed with the higher cost LRT alternative will not be accompanied by a serious commitment to build on this technology to expand the surface network of right-of-ways.

So maybe I jumped the gun a bit, and the TTC has had LRT love for longer than I thought.

 

[Voltz]

Their study said that the corridor required a fully grade separated line, regardless of technology. LRT and SRT in a separated line is pretty much the same thing.

Soberman's study was leaning towards LRT, but then he just vanished and the TTC recommended SRT in its final report. They claimed that because converting the existing section of the line to LRT is more expensive than refurbishing, then SRT is the better option. But they blissfully ignored the fact that extending as SRT is a shitload more expensive than LRT and way more than is needed for Malvern

Full Grade separation on the SRT corridor (as either LRT, SRT or subway) is only required on the existing section, beyond that a regular LRT would do just fine and be compatible with the planned network

 

[Whoaccio]

Is this a joke?

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Finally! No more orphan technologies, please.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Finally! No more orphan technologies, please.

It's not orphaned if it's useful, i.e. if the RT was extended along Eglinton to the Airport

 

[kEiThZ]

I had a feeling they'd come to that conclusion eventually. Now the question is will they go further and understand that the current SRT routing needs to be replaced with a BD extension.

LRT is more than appropriate for the proposed SRT extension to serve Malvern and Centennial college. But it's not appropriate at all for the STC to Kennedy leg. I hope the TTC and Metrolinx get to the point where they understand that those are two different corridors with different demands and modal requirements.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It's not orphaned if it's useful, i.e. if the RT was extended along Eglinton to the Airport

That's at least an $8 billion project...a monumental waste of money and only a fraction as useful as it seems. We could extend Danforth to STC, extend Bloor to the airport, build the Transfer City line on Eglinton, and run streetcars out to Malvern for less money...everybody would win...

 

[afransen]

I had a feeling they'd come to that conclusion eventually. Now the question is will they go further and understand that the current SRT routing needs to be replaced with a BD extension.

LRT is more than appropriate for the proposed SRT extension to serve Malvern and Centennial college. But it's not appropriate at all for the STC to Kennedy leg. I hope the TTC and Metrolinx get to the point where they understand that those are two different corridors with different demands and modal requirements.

I think the fact that Metrolinx is so dogmatically attached to the SRT is a sign that problems might run a little deeper within that organization that I first hoped. I supported the organization as I expected it to produce more rational planning than municipal government. All I see is it parroting what passes for conventional wisdom at the TTC these days.

 

[doady]

Metrolinx are just only following the individual plans of each system, even though it is supposed to be the regional planning body. Metrolinx are just tools.

 

[DavidH]

Metrolinx are just only following the individual plans of each system, even though it is supposed to be the regional planning body. Metrolinx are just tools.

While I have my own doubts about Metrolinx, the evidence from the report I quoted is that they are reopening many individual system plans: eg. conversion of SRT, lengthening the tunneled section of Eglinton, linkage of Finch West and Sheppard East.

We'll have to see how the detailed analyses go before we can determine just how independent they are being.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The SRT is cheaper and easier to replace with a LRT then to replace it with an extension of the 2 Bloor-Danforth HRT subway. The HRT is wider and heavier for one reason, meaning the stations would have to be torn down and rebuilt. A LRT is about the same width, and if low-floor LRV's are used, then the trackwork will just has to be raised at the stations along with some roof work for the overhead catenary.

 

[nfitz]

If LRT replaced SRT, there would be a much greater chance at some point in the future, that the BD line was extended directly to STC, than if the SRT was rehabbed and extended to Malvern and/or down Eglinton.

It would also create opportunities for other quite economical SRT/LRT extensions, to Agincourt, Kingston Road, etc.

And I doubt the travel time of an LRT unit going from Kennedy to STC would be much increased. It might even be reduced because of the increased frequency leading to shorter waiting times.