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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate

What do you believe should be done on the Eglinton Corridor?

  • Do Nothing

    Votes: 5 1.3%

  • Build the Eglinton Crosstown LRT as per Transit City

    Votes: 140 36.9%

  • Revive the Eglinton Subway

    Votes: 226 59.6%

  • Other (Explain in post)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • Total voters
    379
The guideway can be designed to accommodate the climate.

Denver and Salt Lake City's LRT systems have switch heaters, etc. that Portland's LRT system doesn't have - because of different climates.

Likewise for ICTS, JFK's Airtrain probably has heaters in the guideway as well. For Vancouver - our climate doesn't warrant the expense for the rare dumps of snow we get.

If it's going to be ICTS, will it be elevated east and west of the tunnel segments? If so, you should push for a side of the road allignment (which allows smaller scale stations) not a centre median guideway, which requires taller stations with mezzanines below.
 
Isn't there equipment that can keep the reaction rail clear? ICTS is about 1/2 as expensive as a full subway, even when tunnelled, and 6-car ICTS trains could certainly handle the projected loads on Eglinton. The big IF is the amount of bleed-off from the Bloor-Danforth line. Nobody seems to mention this -- a full Eglinton line would probably intercept about 1/3 of BD's riders just from N-S bus routes alone. That gives you about 150k per day from Day 1.
 
officedweller said:
The guideway can be designed to accommodate the climate.
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The proof is in the pudding. If after almost 30-years Bombardier hasn't been able to get it to work in the winter, why would we think that they suddenly have magical powers now? It's pretty predictable, it snows, and the Scarborough Skytrain is down. And I thought JFK had some shutdowns this winter as well - even though it is much warmer there than here.
 
ICTS would make use of land that was designated for the Richview expressway (which was never built). Trying to get LRT into Pearson at grade is almost impossible -- the area is a maze of highway ON and OFF ramps. Besides, LRT on a semi-exclusive ROW just isn't an attractive airport or crosstown service.
 
LowerBay said:
Isn't there equipment that can keep the reaction rail clear? ICTS is about 1/2 as expensive as a full subway, even when tunnelled, and 6-car ICTS trains could certainly handle the projected loads on Eglinton. The big IF is the amount of bleed-off from the Bloor-Danforth line. Nobody seems to mention this -- a full Eglinton line would probably intercept about 1/3 of BD's riders just from N-S bus routes alone. That gives you about 150k per day from Day 1.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was thinking. If Eglinton was a full-blown Subway, there would be a lot of passengers diverted, which would bring it's ridership up to the TTC's "Subway standards," something that none of the other TC lines will be able to do. I still think Eglinton could be a proper Subway, and a Crosstown Finch route could use ICTS very well (yes I, am still hooked on that idea.)

On another somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know what the TTC is planning for transfers between the TC lines? I was thinking if both lines dropped underground into a real station, transfers would be much less painless, and the intersections of the lines would become real hotspots.

EDIT: Even if Eglinton was built with ICTS, it would divert a lot more people off of the Bloor line than just a LRT would, it's not only exclusive to subway :)
 
There's no reason that an Eglinton LRT couldn't be grade-separated above ground also, so I don't see the point in ICTS. A completely grade-separated LRT would be more reliable and cheaper than ICTS and they can use the cost savings to extend the Bloor-Danforth line to SCC instead of rebuilding the Scarborough RT.
 
doady said:
There's no reason that an Eglinton LRT couldn't be grade-separated above ground also, so I don't see the point in ICTS. A completely grade-separated LRT would be more reliable and cheaper than ICTS and they can use the cost savings to extend the Bloor-Danforth line to SCC instead of rebuilding the Scarborough RT.
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The only argument I need is SPEED!!!
The RT is very fast and can match or even exceed a subway train.
Common sense would want that a link to the airport be fast.

Lrt...10 kph faster than a bust is for from impressive...
From Kenedy to the airport by LRT...
I'd rather not think of how long it would take.
 
The advantage is that ICTS has greater capacity than even fully grade-separated LRT -- six-car trains, automated operation, 60 second headways.

As for connections between TC lines, think of our current streetcar stops with narrow glass shelters. Even though the TC cars will be double-ended with track crossovers, don't be fooled by the TTC's PR -- these are nothing more than glorified streetcar lines a la St. Clair.

What was interesting about the Eglinton subway of the 90s, before it was killed, was the initial proposal of a wye connection at Eglinton W., which would have allowed all Eglinton trains to continue downtown DIRECT, and which would have replaced the St. Clair W. short turn. Of course, the TTC quickly killed the idea.
 
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LowerBay said:
Isn't there equipment that can keep the reaction rail clear? ICTS is about 1/2 as expensive as a full subway, even when tunnelled, and 6-car ICTS trains could certainly handle the projected loads on Eglinton. The big IF is the amount of bleed-off from the Bloor-Danforth line. Nobody seems to mention this -- a full Eglinton line would probably intercept about 1/3 of BD's riders just from N-S bus routes alone. That gives you about 150k per day from Day 1.
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You've just made my comfort level go way up with this project. If they are using a 6 car "heavy-light rail" system, this is not going to be a problem at all if it goes beyond 250k people per day and passenger counts shoot up over 100 million a year. The cost savings over subway actually become viable at that point.

What I would be worried about is if they create a system where its limited to no more than 2 cars per train underground and the technology was stuck with the limited capacity. That's when you can start to call it an overglorified bus. LOL

But you guys are kind of missing one thing, where is the proof they are using Bombardier technology? And how would the trains be automated if they are crossing an intersection? There is no large rail system in the world that is automated where it crosses as much traffic as this is proposed... A manned train is required for these situations, its not like Vancouver's Sky Train where its completely grade separated.
 
LowerBay said:
I wouldn't worry about Eglinton being undersized as LRT -- rumor has it that the line will be ICTS and operated by Bombardier, not the TTC. In fact, the TTC won't even own this line.
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That rumour was bandied about here a few months ago and tossed out by those in the know on this forum. If the Scarborough RT corridor could not pass the mustard for ICTS 2 (the Metrolinx SRT BCA recommended conversion to LRT) I don't see how Eglinton (which would have lower demands) could stand a chance to justify something greater than LRT.
 
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Ansem said:
The only argument I need is SPEED!!!
The RT is very fast and can match or even exceed a subway train.
Common sense would want that a link to the airport be fast.

Lrt...10 kph faster than a bust is for from impressive...
From Kenedy to the airport by LRT...
I'd rather not think of how long it would take.
Click to expand...

The RT is fast in large part because of its stop spacing and grade separation. It has very little to do with the train set being used. LRT in the tunnel will be quite quick especially if they stick to the planned stop spacing of 850m along the tunneled portion. The only slower trips will be along the surface portions where stop spacing drops to 450m and where the LRT will obviously be subject to all the additional challenges of operating in an exclusive, non-grade separated ROW.
 
My understanding is that ICTS is still on the table, and that the technology decision of the SRT depends on the final decision for Eglinton. It's not all about demand -- it's about creating a regional express corridor instead of a local one, with a future extension into Mississauga.

The demand estimates are all junk science anyway -- 9,000, then 5,000 -- they must be pulling these numbers out of fat air. I say fat air only because Miller is involved.
 
I don't see how ICTS is possible on the street. Can you imagine a six car ICTS running at grade? If Metrolinx was committed to tunneling or elevating the entire route, maybe. But, that's been ruled out. So that leaves only one obvious choice.
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't see how ICTS is possible on the street. Can you imagine a six car ICTS running at grade? If Metrolinx was committed to tunneling or elevating the entire route, maybe. But, that's been ruled out. So that leaves only one obvious choice.
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we just have to wait and see but since Metrolinx have a more regional vision of public transit than Local...in mind they will push for ICTS for both lines
 
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