B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
Who are the graffiti artists? Where can we see their work?
Who are the graffiti artists? Where can we see their work?
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S
Suicidal Gingerbread Man
Guest
Re: t
Paraone.
Wow. Long time no see. I recall a few years ago I was driving down the Gardiner and distinctly reading Paraone on one of the warehouses in the Bathurst area. Was permission granted for that?
But regarding graffiti, there are obvious difference between taggers and real artists. Someone felt the need to express themselves on every surface down my street a year or so ago.
Paraone.
Wow. Long time no see. I recall a few years ago I was driving down the Gardiner and distinctly reading Paraone on one of the warehouses in the Bathurst area. Was permission granted for that?
But regarding graffiti, there are obvious difference between taggers and real artists. Someone felt the need to express themselves on every surface down my street a year or so ago.
B
bizorky
Guest
Re: t
I get the impression that a vast majority don't ask for permission.
the fact that some people don't ask permission is really an ugly side bar to the art rather than the art itself.
I get the impression that a vast majority don't ask for permission.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
Originality drains from all fads sooner or later, no matter how grandiose their ambitions. They become predictable and technique-based rather than vehicles for original thought.
Graffiti "art" has joined the ranks of quilting, macramae and crochet as a craft. All it retains is the power to irritate.
Originality drains from all fads sooner or later, no matter how grandiose their ambitions. They become predictable and technique-based rather than vehicles for original thought.
Graffiti "art" has joined the ranks of quilting, macramae and crochet as a craft. All it retains is the power to irritate.
A
adma
Guest
Re: t
I can understand if graffiti's become as obnoxious as mimes; but sheesh, can it with the "Allan Bloom" cultural-fag-con snottery, the lot of you...
I can understand if graffiti's become as obnoxious as mimes; but sheesh, can it with the "Allan Bloom" cultural-fag-con snottery, the lot of you...
N
nassauone
Guest
Re: t
So to be deemed "art" one must show in the Louvre or Tate? Hmmmm, that poor schmuck Basquiat and all his early work. And that hack Haring with all those random subway pieces. And Diego Rivera and his murals...
Completely inflamatory and ridiculous at the same time. Where to even begin? As an art snob you should be the first to realise that all good art has the power to irrate. Duchamp's Urinal? Warhol's Soup Can? Rauschenberg (who is often one step away from street art)? The entire minimalist movement (and I am a fan)? Now I am not arguing that all graffiti is good art but to lump it all together as a craft is completely asinine. If categorizing art was that easy I would say that all landscape painters are of the same category as Bob Ross - yes, even you Whistler. Nothing but pretty pictures.
One has to look no further than Barry Mcgee - Street name Twist (stop your snikering) to know that Graffiti has gone beyond craft. Unless numerous solo shows (Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, Walker Art Center, Arman Hammer Museum) and many group shows (SFMOMA, the Drawing Center NY to name some) mean nothing.
Bansky in th UK is another street artist gaing mainstream art acceptance. Adam Neate in Sao Paulo.
Come on...even the Salon des Refuses was once completely rejected.
Who are the graffiti artists? Where can we see their work?
So to be deemed "art" one must show in the Louvre or Tate? Hmmmm, that poor schmuck Basquiat and all his early work. And that hack Haring with all those random subway pieces. And Diego Rivera and his murals...
Graffiti "art" has joined the ranks of quilting, macramae and crochet as a craft. All it retains is the power to irritate.
Completely inflamatory and ridiculous at the same time. Where to even begin? As an art snob you should be the first to realise that all good art has the power to irrate. Duchamp's Urinal? Warhol's Soup Can? Rauschenberg (who is often one step away from street art)? The entire minimalist movement (and I am a fan)? Now I am not arguing that all graffiti is good art but to lump it all together as a craft is completely asinine. If categorizing art was that easy I would say that all landscape painters are of the same category as Bob Ross - yes, even you Whistler. Nothing but pretty pictures.
One has to look no further than Barry Mcgee - Street name Twist (stop your snikering) to know that Graffiti has gone beyond craft. Unless numerous solo shows (Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, Walker Art Center, Arman Hammer Museum) and many group shows (SFMOMA, the Drawing Center NY to name some) mean nothing.
Bansky in th UK is another street artist gaing mainstream art acceptance. Adam Neate in Sao Paulo.
Come on...even the Salon des Refuses was once completely rejected.
B
bizorky
Guest
Re: t
Adma, because of you, the hyphen will never become extinct.
but sheesh, can it with the "Allan Bloom" cultural-fag-con snottery, the lot of you...
Adma, because of you, the hyphen will never become extinct.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
nassauone:
When I asked paraone who he considers to be the graffiti artists, and where we can see their work, I neither said nor implied that to be considered "art" their work must show in the Louvre or the Tate.
However, Haring, Basquiat and perhaps McGee are examples of artists who did indeed gain such mainstream acceptance because of their talent.
In the best Picasso-esque tradition of, "Bad artists copy, great artists steal" they appropriated elements from graffiti into their work and transcended the visual cliche's that characterize "graffiti art" to say something original.
nassauone:
When I asked paraone who he considers to be the graffiti artists, and where we can see their work, I neither said nor implied that to be considered "art" their work must show in the Louvre or the Tate.
However, Haring, Basquiat and perhaps McGee are examples of artists who did indeed gain such mainstream acceptance because of their talent.
In the best Picasso-esque tradition of, "Bad artists copy, great artists steal" they appropriated elements from graffiti into their work and transcended the visual cliche's that characterize "graffiti art" to say something original.
P
paraone2004
Guest
Re: t
"Paraone.
Wow. Long time no see. I recall a few years ago I was driving down the Gardiner and distinctly reading Paraone on one of the warehouses in the Bathurst area. Was permission granted for that?"
Sorry man, impossible. I haven't done an illegal burner since I was 15, that's 16 years ago. and I don't ever recall hitting any buildings in the bathurst area. I did do a lot of painting in the alleys on the south side of Queen between Portland and Spadina, but each building I painted on was a legal wall.
Babel,
Go to the TTC parking lot at the backside of Keele station, that is where you'll see probably the best work in the city. Now when your there you will no doubt see a lot of tags on the surrounding property. I in no way would ever try an justify the destrtuction of peoples property, but don't put me in the same catagory as these little kids/toys who have yet to grow up. This wall is a legal wall and has been since about 1987, and is home to the best of the best from across the city.
Also I'm not sure if you know but Eric Clapton and Elton John have paid thousands of dollars for pieces by dzine from Chicago and Crash from LA, who is the cousin of the cleanest toronto artist ever, Scam. Scam, also runs a very profitable graphic design firm. As for other artists in the city, Case (originally from ottawa, not to be confused with the tagger Kase) is a hugly talented classical animator working on feature films and commercials. Recca owns a very sucessful mural company. Duro3, also owns his own web design firm. There are countless other sucess stories that where created because of the positive things that can come out of graffiti.
go to Keele and take a look at the outstanding art.
"Paraone.
Wow. Long time no see. I recall a few years ago I was driving down the Gardiner and distinctly reading Paraone on one of the warehouses in the Bathurst area. Was permission granted for that?"
Sorry man, impossible. I haven't done an illegal burner since I was 15, that's 16 years ago. and I don't ever recall hitting any buildings in the bathurst area. I did do a lot of painting in the alleys on the south side of Queen between Portland and Spadina, but each building I painted on was a legal wall.
Babel,
Go to the TTC parking lot at the backside of Keele station, that is where you'll see probably the best work in the city. Now when your there you will no doubt see a lot of tags on the surrounding property. I in no way would ever try an justify the destrtuction of peoples property, but don't put me in the same catagory as these little kids/toys who have yet to grow up. This wall is a legal wall and has been since about 1987, and is home to the best of the best from across the city.
Also I'm not sure if you know but Eric Clapton and Elton John have paid thousands of dollars for pieces by dzine from Chicago and Crash from LA, who is the cousin of the cleanest toronto artist ever, Scam. Scam, also runs a very profitable graphic design firm. As for other artists in the city, Case (originally from ottawa, not to be confused with the tagger Kase) is a hugly talented classical animator working on feature films and commercials. Recca owns a very sucessful mural company. Duro3, also owns his own web design firm. There are countless other sucess stories that where created because of the positive things that can come out of graffiti.
go to Keele and take a look at the outstanding art.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
Thanks paraone.
Dzine and Crash are perfect examples of the point I made earlier - they've traded the spontaneous, quick-hit world of spray painting subway cars to produce formal and thoughtful paintings on canvas in their studios ( Crash incorporates silkscreen in his works on canvas, and Dzine produces complex layered works of great subtlety and beauty ).
Their creativity is no longer held back by the speed required to produce graffiti in public places one step ahead of the law, therefore it isn't technique-and-material based like crafts, and they are liberated to appropriate ideas from other media and use a richer visual vocabulary to speak to us.
Thanks paraone.
Dzine and Crash are perfect examples of the point I made earlier - they've traded the spontaneous, quick-hit world of spray painting subway cars to produce formal and thoughtful paintings on canvas in their studios ( Crash incorporates silkscreen in his works on canvas, and Dzine produces complex layered works of great subtlety and beauty ).
Their creativity is no longer held back by the speed required to produce graffiti in public places one step ahead of the law, therefore it isn't technique-and-material based like crafts, and they are liberated to appropriate ideas from other media and use a richer visual vocabulary to speak to us.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
... in fact, it is "graffiti art" in name only.
... in fact, it is "graffiti art" in name only.
P
paraone2004
Guest
Re: t
the style is "graffiti art" it has nothing to do with tagging subway cars, it just so happens that's where it originated and if you really want to be technical graffiti started in Philly during the early 70's by people drawing on little cards. "Getting up" is a side arm of the culture, the style is pure graffiti. Graffiti can be any where in any medium, shit I do it on a computer now. Stop trying to define graffiti as an act rather than a movement.
the style is "graffiti art" it has nothing to do with tagging subway cars, it just so happens that's where it originated and if you really want to be technical graffiti started in Philly during the early 70's by people drawing on little cards. "Getting up" is a side arm of the culture, the style is pure graffiti. Graffiti can be any where in any medium, shit I do it on a computer now. Stop trying to define graffiti as an act rather than a movement.
B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
The act of scrawling graffiti on objects has been going on for thousands of years, in many different cultures past and present, and certainly didn't begin in Philly in the 1970's.
Once liberated from the artistically restricting quick-hit imperative of illegally defacing buildings or vehicles with graffiti and running away, former graffitists are free to produce works of art, and some do. Some art world assimilationists even go so far as to attempt to deny the very roots of their chosen medium.
The act of scrawling graffiti on objects has been going on for thousands of years, in many different cultures past and present, and certainly didn't begin in Philly in the 1970's.
Once liberated from the artistically restricting quick-hit imperative of illegally defacing buildings or vehicles with graffiti and running away, former graffitists are free to produce works of art, and some do. Some art world assimilationists even go so far as to attempt to deny the very roots of their chosen medium.
P
paraone2004
Guest
Re: t
hence my point the style we refer to as graffiti is not the act of simply apply marks to a surface it is a sub-culture and art movement that originated in philly in the 70's and exploded in new york in the late 70's.
for arguements sake, I shall calle graffiti art, aerosol art and tags graffiti does that work for you??
hence my point the style we refer to as graffiti is not the act of simply apply marks to a surface it is a sub-culture and art movement that originated in philly in the 70's and exploded in new york in the late 70's.
for arguements sake, I shall calle graffiti art, aerosol art and tags graffiti does that work for you??
B
building babel
Guest
Re: t
No, because restricting the use of the word "graffiti" to tagging alone leaves out a whole range of purely visual graffiti - which has a far longer and more dishonourable history than word-based defacements and slogans. Also, restricting the definition of visual graffiti ( or, as you would have it, "graffiti art" ) to the medium of aerosol-produced visuals restricts it on the basis of tools and materials and therefore restricts it to technique, which leaves it stuck somewhat in the realm of craft.
I realize that, in order to successfully wave the magic talisman word "artist" - and weld it in the public consciousness to the word "graffiti" - you're hamstrung by the need to keep the aerosol roots of graffiti vandalism in order to maintain cred. It is a quandry, because art is constantly evolving. A catch 22 in a way. I sympathise, I really do. But the title of "artist" isn't an entitlement, despite your earlier, baffled cry, "your telling me that graffiti is not art?"
No, because restricting the use of the word "graffiti" to tagging alone leaves out a whole range of purely visual graffiti - which has a far longer and more dishonourable history than word-based defacements and slogans. Also, restricting the definition of visual graffiti ( or, as you would have it, "graffiti art" ) to the medium of aerosol-produced visuals restricts it on the basis of tools and materials and therefore restricts it to technique, which leaves it stuck somewhat in the realm of craft.
I realize that, in order to successfully wave the magic talisman word "artist" - and weld it in the public consciousness to the word "graffiti" - you're hamstrung by the need to keep the aerosol roots of graffiti vandalism in order to maintain cred. It is a quandry, because art is constantly evolving. A catch 22 in a way. I sympathise, I really do. But the title of "artist" isn't an entitlement, despite your earlier, baffled cry, "your telling me that graffiti is not art?"