Dundas West/ Bloor Mobility Hub +interconnected hub network (Metrolinx)

[SubHuman]

Latest article here.

"the 270-metre-long project"?
How far away are the eastern ends of the TTC subway station's platforms from being directly underneath the GO/UP Express tracks? I thought it was much closer. Has the writer of the article perhaps confused the length of the proposed tunnel with the present above ground walking distance to get from one to the other?

 

[Jaye101]

source: https://stevemunro.ca
Historical circa 1990. Not the current plan afaik. Also, the numbers seem to be in feet(?)

 

[smallspy]

source: https://stevemunro.ca
Historical circa 1990. Not the current plan afaik. Also, the numbers seem to be in feet(?)

Pretty sure that those numbers are ASL - meters above sea level.

Dan

 

[SubHuman]

I just assumed they're building something like the images shown in the post back on page 5 of this topic.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...b-network-metrolinx.16392/page-5#post-1291227
I don't see how any new tunnel would have to be 270 meters long, unless that maybe also includes the entire length of the existing TTC Dundas West subway station platforms.

 

[steveintoronto]

I just assumed they're building something like the images shown in the post back on page 5 of this topic.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...b-network-metrolinx.16392/page-5#post-1291227
I don't see how any new tunnel would have to be 270 meters long, unless that maybe also includes the entire length of the existing TTC Dundas West subway station platforms.

Thanks for that link! I've been in the basement levels of Crossways trying to line up the above drawing and it makes little sense. Since I was down there a few months back, that area has just been renovated...as to why, one has to wonder.

Since many readers won't access the link to that page, here's the drawings that do make sense:

It's without an absolutely necessary elevator, however. (In fact at least two would be necessary).

I can state with certainty that structurally, these drawings are not accurate. However, conceptually, it appears to be, and much more rational than the more popular depiction being distributed.

On the second pic above, which I think would be much preferable in terms of avoiding property issues, and connecting the station main entrance to the existing northern tunnels and subway, the challenge would be sinking stair and elevator shafts below what's shown as the westernmost track. That track at this point is non-existent, and the time seems ripe to do this before that RoW is used on the surface.

They were looking at two options back in 2011.

Excellent find W.K., but I'm left puzzled. What I always considered to be the way to do this has already been projected in these drawings from "2011". Either of these options doesn't require expropriation. The City owns the underground corridor next to the subway and tunnels. Why has the "expropriation" excuse been used all these years?

I'll take a look again in the Crossways B1 and B2 parking levels in the next few days, The northernmost area underground but not in the building proper has been inaccessible for the last few months due to "renos".

Something to be aware of is that from all I can tell, albeit I'll ask the on-site engineer next chance I get, the access from the 2376 Dundas West property (the Highstar development, the large site excavation now underway, albeit stalled at this time) is unlikely, although above ground access is mentioned in their promo literature.

 

[Hopkins123]

Still bewildered as to why the Crossways' owners wouldn't want foot traffic through their mall concourse as an excuse not to welcome a secondary entrance to D West. I'm sure the Eaton Centre, College Park, Sheppard Centre, Yonge-Eglinton Centre, St Clair Centre, etc.' retail vendors are grateful for the business having a subway access nearby affords them.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Even Crossways tenants don't have unfettered access to the mall. It is closed and locked at 11:00 PM and doesn't open until 8:00 in the morning. The business tenants want it that way for security. The residential tenants of the two towers are on separate security passes too. When the mall access is locked, they must enter and exit by the northern facing front entrances, unless they use the emergency exits.

That in itself is a massive reason for Metrolinx and TTC to not wish that access.

I'm sure the Eaton Centre, College Park, Sheppard Centre, Yonge-Eglinton Centre, St Clair Centre, etc.' retail vendors are grateful for the business having a subway access nearby affords them.

I'm just checking a number of the malls you list. They have defined opening hours, and the mall is closed off otherwise.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm just checking a number of the malls you list. They have defined opening hours, and the mall is closed off otherwise.

This is not correct.

The Eaton Centre is physically accessible during all path hours (roughly 6am-2am). Its a requirement for the Path and for any building with a subway connection agreement.

The Eaton Centre is part of the accessibility plan for Dundas Stn.

Yonge-Eglinton Centre (prior to being cut off for construction) was also governed by the same access rules. I've walked through it at 7am on a Sunday morning and at midnight.

St. Clair Centre the same.

I used to walk through there on Sundays before Sunday shopping with all stores closed.

Their 'hours' are shopping hours and also generally limit access to any public washrooms. In some cases, they may also result in non-operational escalators as well.

But through access must be permitted.

 

[steveintoronto]

I didn't state all, I stated "a number". Here's one:

college park mall closing time - Google Search

And again, here's the major problem for Crossways: (And believe me, I'm no supporter of the Creccal family, I won't get into it, it involved legal action)

But through access must be permitted.

I repeat, the Crossways Mall outside of opening hours is closed to residents as well as the public. It's necessary for the security of the buildings. The Crossways is a number of addresses, each with its own access and exits, and security pass gates into/out of the mall. And today, here are the hours of the mall:
9a.m.–6p.m.
The Crossways, Monday hours

And the vendors prefer it that way! There's a pub that stays open later, but its doors to the mall are locked at mall closing time. Its doors to the street are closed when it closes.

Unlike major malls, the Crossways Mall isn't designed for all hours transit. In the event, it doesn't need to be, access through their basement isn't necessary, and as it now presents itself, never was. Its been a convenient excuse for inaction on the part of the TTC and Metrolinx.

 

[Northern Light]

I didn't state all, I stated "a number". Here's one:

college park mall closing time - Google Search

And again, here's the major problem for Crossways: (And believe me, I'm no supporter of the Creccal family, I won't get into it, it involved legal action)

I repeat, the Crossways Mall outside of opening hours is closed to residents as well as the public. It's necessary for the security of the buildings. The Crossways is a number of addresses, each with its own access and exits, and security pass gates into/out of the mall. And today, here are the hours of the mall:
9a.m.–6p.m.
The Crossways, Monday hours

And the vendors prefer it that way! There's a pub that stays open later, but its doors to the mall are locked at mall closing time. Its doors to the street are closed when it closes.

Unlike major malls, the Crossways Mall isn't designed for all hours transit. In the event, it doesn't need to be, access through their basement isn't necessary, and as it now presents itself, never was. Its been a convenient excuse for inaction on the part of the TTC and Metrolinx.

I didn't dispute your assertion about Crossways.

Please read what I quoted and corrected.

I made no arguments about Crossways whatsoever.

 

[steveintoronto]

I didn't dispute your assertion about Crossways.

Please read what I quoted and corrected.

I made no arguments about Crossways whatsoever.

Here's the string sequence:

Still bewildered as to why the Crossways' owners wouldn't want foot traffic through their mall concourse as an excuse not to welcome a secondary entrance to D West. I'm sure the Eaton Centre, College Park, Sheppard Centre, Yonge-Eglinton Centre, St Clair Centre, etc.' retail vendors are grateful for the business having a subway access nearby affords them.

I do believe I've explained why. They don't want it, the vendors don't want it, and even the mechanics or the necessity for it isn't conducive to it.

And frankly, I wouldn't want it either. Mall access when the vendors are closed just attracts people who are undesirable to being there. And that means more security.

What is unfortunate in the case of the Crossways is the dangerous constant jaywalking across to the subway station on Dundas. It's amazing that no-one's been seriously hurt doing it, but since the station is to be rebuilt in new development some time soon, it renders any thought of an underground passage in that direction as moot in most respects. The real question is the connection to the redevelopment to the south of Bloor and what connections are established.

My apologies if I caused any offence to Northern Light.

 

[blu_in_green]

I'm new to the West Bend area and new to Urban Toronto. Forgive the newbie comment/question...

Question for those who are used to watching urban development in Toronto: could give me some idea how likely the Mobility Hub study recommendations are to take effect as proposed?

I find the noise and traffic from the Streetcar/bus circle at Dundas West Station already quite polluting (noise and emissions) to the vicinity. If Metrolinx were to go ahead with moving the loop from the present location to Dorval Road (as proposed in "option 1 and 2"), I can only imagine the West Bend neighbourhood getting a lot screechier. Not to mention impact on pedestrian traffic and bicycles...

I would love to see the Dundas West station revitalized, but with thought to keeping noise and pollution levels enclosed. Is there any way to influence change on this point at this point?

 

[torontocolin]

That's ultimately a TTC decision and not Metrolinx. Anything is possible, especially since they may need to do something to deal with the limits of the current loop and the Flexities, but it doesn't seem like it's a priority for them right now. There are also a number of proposed redevelopments in the area right now, including two corners of the Dundas and Bloor intersection, along with a plan to install bike lanes along that stretch of Dundas, and yet zero talk of changes with the TTC station. I expect that one day, probably, we'll see the tunnel between Bloor GO and Dundas West built and not much else for the foreseeable future.

 

[pesto]

It would be really nice to see a new streetcar loop built underneath the crossways parallel with the subway platforms, similar to what is at Spadina Line 2 station.

That might also place it somewhere underneath Bloor, not sure how big a loop is needed and how deep it would have to be in that location, with a portal maybe somewhere on Dundas south of Bloor?

 

[blu_in_green]

It would be really nice to see a new streetcar loop built underneath the crossways parallel with the subway platforms, similar to what is at Spadina Line 2 station.

That might also place it somewhere underneath Bloor, not sure how big a loop is needed and how deep it would have to be in that location, with a portal maybe somewhere on Dundas south of Bloor?

That is exactly what I would like to see. I see this hub as a major major opportunity to connect various modes of transit and keeping the noise and pollution contained should be a major consideration. Not to mention the benefits to cyclists and pedestrians to come with the major densification proposed...