p5connex
Active Member
So in essence, the bridge spanning Queen will essentially be extended over top of what will be Dufferin St.? Or will they just tunnel right under and that is that?
p5
p5
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Dan416
Senior Member
Thanks for the pics Sean. Does this mean they've actually started yet or no?
EDIT: My thread has been brought back to life....yay! (Yes, I'm dashingdan)
EDIT: My thread has been brought back to life....yay! (Yes, I'm dashingdan)
Prometheus The Supremo
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if you look at my attached image, it looks like the western most bridge is not used. the second bridge from the left is used so this is gonna be the hard part.
did a little graphic. i wonder if this is how it will be constructed...
p.s, even though i drew individual spans, they will probably use one massive bridge over dufferin VS the individual bridges for each track.
this is gonna be an intresting construction project.
did a little graphic. i wonder if this is how it will be constructed...
p.s, even though i drew individual spans, they will probably use one massive bridge over dufferin VS the individual bridges for each track.
this is gonna be an intresting construction project.
Attachments
mysteryman
Active Member
^You're right, the two western look unused at the moment, so they'll probably replace them first and divert trains on to them once completed. Then the bridge over the future Dufferin Street will be built for the two eastern tracks.
ShonTron
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All four tracks are use, though the western two are used sporadically - they are now owned by GO Transit and only used for the rush hour Milton trains.
I think they can build underpasses with minimal distruption to tracks above, which at the most would be subject to a slow order. See the Simcoe underpass construction.
I think they can build underpasses with minimal distruption to tracks above, which at the most would be subject to a slow order. See the Simcoe underpass construction.
Chuck
Senior Member
Why build a complicated diagonal bridge, when you follow a simpler grid pattern? Don't rule out one of these structures, as seen on the Gardiner:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=toronto&ie=UTF8&ll=43.627432,-79.482071&spn=0.002718,0.007167&t=k&z=18&iwloc=addr&om=1
Never posted an image before, let's see if this works:
Purple is new covered bridge deck.
Dark blue lines are new beams, covered by bridge deck.
Light blue lines are new beams, not covered.
Solid green line is new edge of bridge, which obviously spans Queen St.
Note that bridge 3 may have to be demolished and rebuilt.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=toronto&ie=UTF8&ll=43.627432,-79.482071&spn=0.002718,0.007167&t=k&z=18&iwloc=addr&om=1
Never posted an image before, let's see if this works:
Purple is new covered bridge deck.
Dark blue lines are new beams, covered by bridge deck.
Light blue lines are new beams, not covered.
Solid green line is new edge of bridge, which obviously spans Queen St.
Note that bridge 3 may have to be demolished and rebuilt.
mysteryman
Active Member
That scheme would need a lot more steel to build than the something following the tracks, and would probably be more costly. Also there would be 50% more roosting areas for pigeons... ick!
maestro
Senior Member
remove the unused west side of the overpass/support & tunnel under the tracks?
add a (temp) bridge in the gap on the east side - divert rail traffic over it - demolish (and rebuilt) the overpass?
should be interesting with what they do to say the least
add a (temp) bridge in the gap on the east side - divert rail traffic over it - demolish (and rebuilt) the overpass?
should be interesting with what they do to say the least
p5connex
Active Member
Tunnel underneath- start further up Dufferin St. (north side) and slope the street and then tunnel underneath- the bridge which is there now is fine and needs only to be refurbished/repainted..We have almost no tunnels in this city- i actually don't think we have any- and this would be a prime spot for one.
p5
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Prometheus The Supremo
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a tunnel would mean that queen street would have to be lowered. this would mess up the bridges over queen because their foundations could be exposed. it would also screw up the streetcars and overhead wires. not to mention, the sewers and utilities on queen street would have to be redone and it would cause the same problems for dufferin south of queen.
that bridge grid would be awful.
i think they'll put a bridge over dufferin (either one wide one or many narrow ones) and allign and place the columns like i drew on the picture.
bets anyone?
dealing with the railway will be intresting.
that bridge grid would be awful.
i think they'll put a bridge over dufferin (either one wide one or many narrow ones) and allign and place the columns like i drew on the picture.
bets anyone?
dealing with the railway will be intresting.
adma
Superstar
I always thought it'd be just a straight jack-up'n'extend operation; that is, it'll no longer be a bridge over one street, but a bridge over the intersection of two streets. (I don't know what compares; Gerrard/Carlaw?)
I'd like to see what they do with the old stonework (particularly the grievously eroded datestone to the NE)
I'd like to see what they do with the old stonework (particularly the grievously eroded datestone to the NE)
wyliepoon
Senior Member
Star: (Dufferin) Jog plan gets nod from tough crowd
Link to article
Jog plan gets nod from tough crowd
$32 million tunnel under rail corridor will ease traffic, rejoin Dufferin St.
Nov 18, 2007 04:30 AM
Andrew Chung
staff reporter
Here's a new one: in the artist-laden enclave of West Queen West where development has typically been met with bared fangs and sharp claws, something welcome this way comes.
It's a major construction project, pegged at $32 million, which will literally change the face of Queen St. W. And yet, as evidenced by a community meeting on Wednesday night where 100 residents filled a local school auditorium, there seems to be little outright opposition to the plan.
By next spring, workers will begin to build a 72-metre tunnel that will finally rejoin Dufferin St., whose two segments have been split for more than a century, forcing the navigation of the so-called "Dufferin Jog" around adjacent Gladstone and Peel Aves. just to get from one side to the other.
While there are still concerns among locals about the project, they mostly relate to the tunnel's artistic design and heritage components, and the inevitable traffic volume increases a straightened-out Dufferin St. will lead to. A handful of residents also wonder how cash-strapped Toronto can afford it.
At the meeting, mostly it was cautious acceptance from a community deeply wary of the fast-paced changes that many feel are eviscerating the artistic and bohemian life from the neighbourhood – the very elements that bring people there.
"I've been to project meetings where people are against something and let me tell you, they let you know loud and clear," says area councillor Adam Giambrone (Ward 18, Davenport). "This was pretty positive."
Perhaps the single biggest reason for the sentiment is the fact that the city has, in fact, been planning to eliminate the jog for more than 40 years. "I remember hearing about it as a boy," recalls Fred Mackie, now 62 and a lifelong area resident. "So why finally now? Probably it's the amount of traffic has gotten so much heavier. Eliminating that problem is good."
Many residents are concerned about safety. Along with an increasing number of cars taking the jog, the Dufferin bus now carries nearly 44,000 passengers a day, and the Queen streetcar 35,000.
The jog has three to four times more traffic accidents than a single intersection would, says engineering consultant Thomas Woods of Delcan, the Markham firm leading the project. Cyclists have been killed in the area and recently a bus took out a tree in front of the Gladstone Hotel as it tried to make a turn onto the jog.
"In terms of safety it's been a real disaster," Christina Zeidler, president of the art-heavy Gladstone Hotel, told the meeting.
The engineers have designed the tunnel with two car lanes and a bike lane in each direction, in anticipation that Dufferin will someday be getting them as well.There will be areas for three small parks, should the city find money for it.
While some locals expressed joy that the project will finally stop endless traffic zipping through their residential streets, the loudest concerns revolved around the tunnel's design.
That's typical of this area, where politically astute activists and artists tangle with developers who seek to capitalize on its cachet.
The latest battle ended earlier this month after tortured negotiations took place with three developers seeking to erect condos in the Queen West Triangle – southeast of Dufferin and Queen. At one point artists even held a "funeral" for their doomed studio space and homes in the squat industrial building at 48 Abell St. The developers agreed to incorporate in their plans artists' space, affordable housing units, and a $1 million conversion of an old library into a theatre.
Delcan representatives told the crowd there would be recesses in the concrete tunnel walls where historical photographs could be transposed into 3D reliefs. The idea was met with a collective cocked eyebrow.
Many were frustrated by the fact that the project design nears completion yet they're only being involved now. Zeidler said the city should hold a workshop, or "charrette," with artists, designers, and engineers to come up with something better.
"We accept so much crappy design in Toronto," Zeidler says in an interview. "What often happens is that because the city's so ugly, all the exciting stuff happens inside. So is a tunnel just a tunnel? No. Any great piece of outdoor architecture in the city becomes a touchstone for everybody."
"The fact that people want to be involved in public art in their neighbourhood is pretty normal and that's what will happen," Giambrone says, adding that a "process" will be set up to deal with the issue. While some are concerned about art, others are looking at the bigger picture and wondering how a cash-strapped city could afford the tunnel.
Community activist Jutta Mason, who wasn't at the meeting, highlights the city's debt of $2.4 billion. "It seems like somebody ought to cut up the city's credit card for a little while," she says. "We certainly have managed with that jog. It's awkward, sure, but there are a lot of awkward things around."
Giambrone rejects the idea. "It's been on the books since 1966," he says. "People across the city may wonder about the jog, but it's critical to the infrastructure to the neighbourhood."
The city has already spent over $10 million demolishing buildings to make way for the tunnel and to pay CN Rail to move tracks for construction.
Link to article
Jog plan gets nod from tough crowd
$32 million tunnel under rail corridor will ease traffic, rejoin Dufferin St.
Nov 18, 2007 04:30 AM
Andrew Chung
staff reporter
Here's a new one: in the artist-laden enclave of West Queen West where development has typically been met with bared fangs and sharp claws, something welcome this way comes.
It's a major construction project, pegged at $32 million, which will literally change the face of Queen St. W. And yet, as evidenced by a community meeting on Wednesday night where 100 residents filled a local school auditorium, there seems to be little outright opposition to the plan.
By next spring, workers will begin to build a 72-metre tunnel that will finally rejoin Dufferin St., whose two segments have been split for more than a century, forcing the navigation of the so-called "Dufferin Jog" around adjacent Gladstone and Peel Aves. just to get from one side to the other.
While there are still concerns among locals about the project, they mostly relate to the tunnel's artistic design and heritage components, and the inevitable traffic volume increases a straightened-out Dufferin St. will lead to. A handful of residents also wonder how cash-strapped Toronto can afford it.
At the meeting, mostly it was cautious acceptance from a community deeply wary of the fast-paced changes that many feel are eviscerating the artistic and bohemian life from the neighbourhood – the very elements that bring people there.
"I've been to project meetings where people are against something and let me tell you, they let you know loud and clear," says area councillor Adam Giambrone (Ward 18, Davenport). "This was pretty positive."
Perhaps the single biggest reason for the sentiment is the fact that the city has, in fact, been planning to eliminate the jog for more than 40 years. "I remember hearing about it as a boy," recalls Fred Mackie, now 62 and a lifelong area resident. "So why finally now? Probably it's the amount of traffic has gotten so much heavier. Eliminating that problem is good."
Many residents are concerned about safety. Along with an increasing number of cars taking the jog, the Dufferin bus now carries nearly 44,000 passengers a day, and the Queen streetcar 35,000.
The jog has three to four times more traffic accidents than a single intersection would, says engineering consultant Thomas Woods of Delcan, the Markham firm leading the project. Cyclists have been killed in the area and recently a bus took out a tree in front of the Gladstone Hotel as it tried to make a turn onto the jog.
"In terms of safety it's been a real disaster," Christina Zeidler, president of the art-heavy Gladstone Hotel, told the meeting.
The engineers have designed the tunnel with two car lanes and a bike lane in each direction, in anticipation that Dufferin will someday be getting them as well.There will be areas for three small parks, should the city find money for it.
While some locals expressed joy that the project will finally stop endless traffic zipping through their residential streets, the loudest concerns revolved around the tunnel's design.
That's typical of this area, where politically astute activists and artists tangle with developers who seek to capitalize on its cachet.
The latest battle ended earlier this month after tortured negotiations took place with three developers seeking to erect condos in the Queen West Triangle – southeast of Dufferin and Queen. At one point artists even held a "funeral" for their doomed studio space and homes in the squat industrial building at 48 Abell St. The developers agreed to incorporate in their plans artists' space, affordable housing units, and a $1 million conversion of an old library into a theatre.
Delcan representatives told the crowd there would be recesses in the concrete tunnel walls where historical photographs could be transposed into 3D reliefs. The idea was met with a collective cocked eyebrow.
Many were frustrated by the fact that the project design nears completion yet they're only being involved now. Zeidler said the city should hold a workshop, or "charrette," with artists, designers, and engineers to come up with something better.
"We accept so much crappy design in Toronto," Zeidler says in an interview. "What often happens is that because the city's so ugly, all the exciting stuff happens inside. So is a tunnel just a tunnel? No. Any great piece of outdoor architecture in the city becomes a touchstone for everybody."
"The fact that people want to be involved in public art in their neighbourhood is pretty normal and that's what will happen," Giambrone says, adding that a "process" will be set up to deal with the issue. While some are concerned about art, others are looking at the bigger picture and wondering how a cash-strapped city could afford the tunnel.
Community activist Jutta Mason, who wasn't at the meeting, highlights the city's debt of $2.4 billion. "It seems like somebody ought to cut up the city's credit card for a little while," she says. "We certainly have managed with that jog. It's awkward, sure, but there are a lot of awkward things around."
Giambrone rejects the idea. "It's been on the books since 1966," he says. "People across the city may wonder about the jog, but it's critical to the infrastructure to the neighbourhood."
The city has already spent over $10 million demolishing buildings to make way for the tunnel and to pay CN Rail to move tracks for construction.
Towered
Senior Member
I'm quite surprised that there's no mention of a future streetcar line...
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
i am so glad this is finally moving forward.. i've lost count how many times i've seen people almost run over by cars speeding around the two corners.
and it looks pretty good, considering the constraints on the project.
Gord Perks put up the presentation on his website, with a good number of renderings.
http://gordperks.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dufferin-jog-elimination-nov-14.pdf
and it looks pretty good, considering the constraints on the project.
Gord Perks put up the presentation on his website, with a good number of renderings.
http://gordperks.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dufferin-jog-elimination-nov-14.pdf
ITcomputer
Active Member
Looks great!!
I'm so happy this is going in and that the Nimby's were few and far between.
I'm so happy this is going in and that the Nimby's were few and far between.