DRL: Pitching DRL to the Mayor. Seriously.

[socialwoe]

LRT vaguely means any non-subway or non-commuter rail form of rapid transit ran on tracks instead of pavement. For Toronto though LRT stands for streetcars while RT pretains to ICTS trains in their own right-of-way e.g. the Scarborough RT.

Pitfield did actually promise subway construction, thoguh the commitment was rather vague.

That's what you'd like to believe. No one really took her serious or had faith in her. Had she won, her electorial promise of 2km per year would've been tried out on Eglinton West where a subway to Jane St was promised within five years. Hence within a decade we'd have a subway almost reaching Pearson instead of a stub 80% of Torontonians will likely never have much use for.

I'm becoming less and less convinced that there is any benefit to converting long suburban bus routes to streetcars, particularly considering the hundreds of millions that the infrastructure would cost.

You're not the only one. I'd convert the 35, 54 and 102/12 to LRT and build the Finch Hydro Corridor LRT but that's about it. What East Scarborough and South/North Etobicoke really needs are more subway extenions. The real question: when will a true transit enthusiast be elected into a position of power where he can really affect policy into the commuter's favor?

 

[EnviroTO]

The Finch Hydro Corridor would only make sense as a GO Transit long distance service. As a local service is makes no sense because the density isn't along the corridor, it is along the streets. The residents along the corridor wouldn't want to give up their low density neighbourhoods either. GO's master plan doesn't even contemplate going east of Keele in the hydro corridor anymore and instead opts for a 407/Seven routing east of Keele. I really don't think the Finch Hydro corridor will ever be used for transit along its entire length, especially with the Sheppard subway one major block south.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Agreed - between the Sheppard subway, the possible future Viva/407 transitway, and the fact that the Finch East bus in particular works fine as is, there may never be a transit line in the hydro corridor. If they had built it 30 years ago some areas adjacent to it could have developed differently, but it's too late to fix that.

 

[socialwoe]

I really don't think the Finch Hydro corridor will ever be used for transit along its entire length, especially with the Sheppard subway one major block south.

Yes but if the TTC plans to divert the Sheppard Line east of Kennedy to serve STC, that leaves the whole northeast area abandoned. Via the Hydro corridor the Zoo, Morningside Hts, Malvern (somewhat), Brownes' Corners, Woodside, Miliken, Bridletown, Seneca College, Old Cummer GO, Chiropractic College, Finch Stn (it's literally on the Hydro), Finchurst (Jewtown), Keele-Finch, Jane-Finch, Humber Regional, Rexdale, Etobicoke North GO and possibly even Pearson would be connected. Whose to say the Sheppard Line would even extend beyond Downsview or STC ever. The biggest plus is the ROW. With little impedement from other traffic this would compatible with subway speeds and reliability.

and the fact that the Finch East bus in particular works fine as is, there may never be a transit line in the hydro corridor. If they had built it 30 years ago some areas adjacent to it could have developed differently, but it's too late to fix that.

39 Finch East whether regular or express takes an hour to get to Yonge Subway. 139 is just as slow facing gridlock on the DVP so it's far from fine as is unless you enjoy agonizing journeys. Furthermore those nodes mentioned above are relatively close to the FHC so development though marginal has occured.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It doesn't take an hour and, anyway, why worry about terminus points when 95+% of riders get on or off before there? I certainly wouldn't use a hydro corridor streetcar, and there's hardly anything within a 5 minute walk of it east of Don Mills. The only thing worse would be streetcars on Finch itself.

 

[socialwoe]

There are alot of people from east of Markham areas that ride all the way to Yonge. The corridor may not be in the best spot but neither is several ROWs (SRT/Kipling Stn./Humber Loop/future DRL) in the city.
True it'd be alot closer to Cummer-McNicoll but the important thing is all the routes it'd connect to getting people from Albion/Humber College/Pearson in the west to Malvern/Morningside Hts./Zoo in the east to the subway in a fraction of the time. Remember what you said about Midtown GO, it could link bus outcrops to the core thrice as fast as the current sysytem allots. Ditto for this. As for 39/139 Finch ppd would decline significantly as rush passengers would utilize FHC leaving the route to better local usage.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"There are alot of people from east of Markham areas that ride all the way to Yonge."

Actually, there aren't...ridership on Finch plummets east of McCowan.

 

[Degnaw]

Why wouldn't you terminate Sheppard at anywhere other than Scarborough Centre? That's where:
1. The high density node is
and
2. It passes through the area where Tridel was going to build a bunch of towers

 

[socialwoe]

Actually, there aren't...ridership on Finch plummets east of McCowan.

Ugh I've rode several times where the bus was full by the time it got to Markham, with people standing and everything. I can't imagine you wouldn't be backing this since you praised a subway on Finch so much previously and was totally against my suggestion of running the Sheppard Line into the Finch/Morningside area instead. I'd think the Finch Hydro LRT would satisfy those demands you felt weren't adequately met a km south by the Sheppard Line, silly me.

Why wouldn't you terminate Sheppard at anywhere other than Scarborough Centre?

Exactly, I wouldn't :b !

The high density node is

In 20 years there's no guarantee the mall won't attract criminal entities, the condos wind up needing gentrification, the employer's jump ship as the subway would surely raise leasing rates, the character of the entire neighbourhood changed and most importantly, the transit hub that started it all loses patronage as other terminals begin to proliferate the peripheral areas that actually house trip generators (Bridle Town, Agincourt, Woodside, Malvern, CC/UTSC). Bye-bye high density, meanwhile upto 40 min bus treks still exist in Scarbourough to get to the subway.

It passes through the area where Tridel was going to build a bunch of towers

Listen I'm not against STC, I'm against the notion that building two subways and terminating them there is all that Scarborough needs when half the borough would still be without a rapid transit link. Ideally Eglinton should be built to UTSC, Sheppard to Meadowvale and the SRT to Malvern. If BD were extended it shouldn't be at the expense of all the new areas these new lines could serve, that's all.

 

[EnviroTO]

Yes but if the TTC plans to divert the Sheppard Line east of Kennedy to serve STC, that leaves the whole northeast area abandoned. Via the Hydro corridor the...

Zoo - Not a major transit hub. Easily served by transit from SCC where two main transit links end.

Morningside Hts - low density housing

Malvern (somewhat) - you would need to walk far or take a bus... might as well take whatever transit solution gets built connecting Malvern with SCC be it an SRT extension, BRT, or tram.

Brownes' Corners, Woodside, Miliken, Bridletown - easy trips south on the bus to to the Sheppard line. Much like Yonge, the Sheppard line will rely on routes to feed it in order for it to be useful.

Seneca College - on the VIVA route, add fare integration and no additional service is required.

Old Cummer GO - low density housing and rush hour service only GO

Chiropractic College, Finch Stn (it's literally on the Hydro) - Close to Yonge subway and Sheppard subway

Finchurst - A good place to serve. If the Sheppard line gets extended west the bus route on Bathurst would dump into it.

Keele-Finch - Location of Spadina Line.

Jane-Finch, Humber Regional, Rexdale, Etobicoke North GO and possibly even Pearson - all places west of Keele which will likely see service and are still part of GO's master plan.

 

[poomar]

that 'jewtown' remark was pretty offensive enviro...

 

[EnviroTO]

I didn't make it. It is quoted from socialwoes post. I will cut it out.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

He's history.

 

[cacruden]

that 'jewtown' remark was pretty offensive enviro...

I will not argue that it is offensive (nor am I quite familiar with that area anymore) BUT it brings up an interesting arguement of how we designate areas in Toronto. We designate areas of Toronto by which identifyable "group" either inhabit's that area (person or business). We have "Little Italy", "Chinatown", etc. What makes "jewtown" any different, would it make a difference if it was called "Jewish-town"? We call several areas of the city Chinatown -- but it does not mean that they make up the majority of the businesses in that area -- in fact it is my understanding that many "Chinese" stores are run by Vietnamese. Do we designate areas of the city by street interchange, as opposed to what differentiates it (by ethnicity/race/culture which often cannot be seperated into just one criteria).

It is interestingly intertwined with "visible minorities" which was really a creation of prior Liberal governments in their drive to push "multi-culturalism" (differentiation) vs "melting pot" which is more of a "blending".

He's history...

Does that mean that he is being banned -- without being given the opportunity of correcting the incident?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Except it's not Little Israel...I bet at least half the Jewish people along Bathurst are from Russia and have never set foot in Israel. As an aside, there's really no reason why 'Jewtown' should be more offensive than 'Chinatown,' but it is, because it just is.