News   Nov 12, 2019
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"Downtown" elites?

King of Kensington

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This political slap was never a dig at any middle class or poor who reside in Downtown. Its a direct dig a the growing wealthy minority in the City who have a greater financial political power advantage and a vested interest in seeing greater investment in the Downtown (and the Core) as opposed to outer areas of the City. Surely many of them live in posh areas of Downtown, and as you mention many live in the attractive central (bloor to finch) which happed to be mostly in reasonable proximity to the subway investment of the past. Inevitably they don't give a crap about focusing on the key detail to revitalize our neglected suburbs of the City. Whether genuine or not Ford has put a political label on it and tapped into the apathy from the lack of focus from a previous pro "Core" administration.

Like most political statements Its not a black and white, and I get how some are offended but voter apathy does exists in large number and the cat is out of the bag. Until steps are taken by all political groups to make serious attempts in diluting this issue were going to see this type of politics continue at the forefront for some time to come.
I'm curious why you think Miller was so focused on the Core to the detriment of the suburbs. It was under Miller that started the priority neighborhoods and his transit plans were focused on improving transit services in Scarborough and NW Toronto. Ford tore them up, pushed a nonsensical subway "plan" which set transit back at least a decade, had no plan for anything for the NW. And the core grew increasingly more prosperous relative to the rest of the city under his watch.
 

TrickyRicky

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King of Kensington, sometimes I’m not the most effective at writing what I mean but refer back to my paradigm post on the previous page.

It’s not important to agree with Ford nation ideas but it is important to understand their paradigm if you want to understand Toronto and I would argue urban regions in general. To a low income Ford Nation supporter Miller’s Transit City was worse than doing nothing because it proposed turning traffic lanes into transit lanes. What “downtown” urbanists don’t understand is that vast segments of the urban working poor are drivers, personally and by vocation. Non-grade separated transit is anti-progressive from their perspective.

Priority neighbourhoods and other social directives aimed at the poor, particularly the state dependant poor are often resented by the working poor and lower middle-class the most because they narrow the gap between trying to make it on your own and being state dependent. It’s like a mockery of your sense of self worth.
 

WislaHD

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Hahaaaaaa....sounds like what I should do every time I moan about overpaid office workers.
Really? I'm think the tradesmen and women out there are doing quite well in this market. :p

I guess that is what happens when you tell every kid in high school that they need to go to university. You create a supply constraint in the trades.

This political slap was never a dig at any middle class or poor who reside in Downtown. Its a direct dig a the growing wealthy minority in the City who have a greater financial political power advantage and a vested interest in seeing greater investment in the Downtown (and the Core) as opposed to outer areas of the City.
I really think you are reading too much into the intentions of the quote unquote "downtown elites". Nobody is intentionally trying to screw over the outer areas of the city. If "downtown elites" are guilty of something, it is in hoping that they can make the suburbs more like downtown, which is a miscommunication problem that @TrickyRicky pointed out in his posts.
 

King of Kensington

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King of Kensington, sometimes I’m not the most effective at writing what I mean but refer back to my paradigm post on the previous page.

It’s not important to agree with Ford nation ideas but it is important to understand their paradigm if you want to understand Toronto and I would argue urban regions in general. To a low income Ford Nation supporter Miller’s Transit City was worse than doing nothing because it proposed turning traffic lanes into transit lanes. What “downtown” urbanists don’t understand is that vast segments of the urban working poor are drivers, personally and by vocation. Non-grade separated transit is anti-progressive from their perspective.

Priority neighbourhoods and other social directives aimed at the poor, particularly the state dependant poor are often resented by the working poor and lower middle-class the most because they narrow the gap between trying to make it on your own and being state dependent. It’s like a mockery of your sense of self worth.
Yes, and another thing to keep in mind is that the working poor, disproportionately reliant on transit, vote at a lower rate than homeowners do.

Municipal politics in Toronto is more of a "culture war" between the urban and suburban middle classes than "rich vs. poor" per se.

Perhaps that could change if someone could bring a "De Blasio" type coalition together municipally.
 

SunriseChampion

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Really? I'm think the tradesmen and women out there are doing quite well in this market. :p
.
Yeah, we're definitely not poor but still largely underpaid especially relative to various "knowledge economy", banking, "consultancy"*, etc jobs.

I mean considering shelter is a need and not a frivolity like, say, social media.

It's hard work, insufficient recognition.
I'm planning on retiring by 45. I've spent enough of my life building homes for pompous ingrates.


* Pretty well all of the "consultants" I've dealt with are a complete waste of money, space, and air. Yet they make more money than the people who know more about the work being done and actually do it.
It's a pretty lucrative fraud.
 

lenaitch

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Yeah, we're definitely not poor but still largely underpaid especially relative to various "knowledge economy", banking, "consultancy"*, etc jobs.

I mean considering shelter is a need and not a frivolity like, say, social media.

It's hard work, insufficient recognition.
I'm planning on retiring by 45. I've spent enough of my life building homes for pompous ingrates.


* Pretty well all of the "consultants" I've dealt with are a complete waste of money, space, and air. Yet they make more money than the people who know more about the work being done and actually do it.
It's a pretty lucrative fraud.
A good plan. Depending on your trade, best to plan to retire before your body makes the decision for you.
 

SunriseChampion

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A good plan. Depending on your trade, best to plan to retire before your body makes the decision for you.
That too!

Brutal, destructive work...underpaid to break yourself.
I'm outside all year, for starters.
 

King of Kensington

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That's the thing...I know professors, lawyers, doctors, consultants etc. working in their seventies who are certainly financially comfortable to retire if they so wished. How many tradespeople still work well into their senior years?
 

lenaitch

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That's the thing...I know professors, lawyers, doctors, consultants etc. working in their seventies who are certainly financially comfortable to retire if they so wished. How many tradespeople still work well into their senior years?
I remember growing up in Toronto seeing first generation European-Canadians, mostly Italian, doing stone and masonry work and half of them looked like they were in their late-50s or older. Maybe they weren't and just looked like it. That's back-breaking work in all sorts of weather. It would be interesting if there was any study of their life expectancy after they finally managed to retire. It's all physical labour but the 'inside trades'; i.e. plumbing and electrical, probably have it a bit easier (I'm thinking home residential here), but it's still a lot of ladder and over-the-head work, but at least they are largely out of the weather.
 

sixrings

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True. I was at the Vaughan keg (it's in a big box store plaza) last night and it was filled with grown men in graphic t shirts and shorts. Not the hipster kind either. People wore their timhortons or wonderland clothes. Also I never saw so many kids in a decent restaurant.
 

narduch

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True. I was at the Vaughan keg (it's in a big box store plaza) last night and it was filled with grown men in graphic t shirts and shorts. Not the hipster kind either. People wore their timhortons or wonderland clothes. Also I never saw so many kids in a decent restaurant.
Well it is beside Wonderland.

We used to go to that same Keg on Thursday nights. We called it Club Keg because everyone dressed up
 

sixrings

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So after the Keg we went to go watch "Little Italy". I think everyone in the theatre was Italian. Anyways the movie takes place in torontos little Italy. So I'd recommend it for that alone. But I think it's interesting that the Italians seemed to loved the movie and the setting of Little Italy. On the other hand most of these people left the city for the suburbs. What led them to that. Myself I'm not Italian. I'm dutch I don't think there's a little Holland. But if I was Italian I'd definitely want to live in little Italy. Anyways I do find it interesting that in Italy people lived super dense in the city. Then they moved here and lived less dense. Then they moved again and lived even less dense. Then they make fun of "elites" yet love to romanticize the good old days which included living dense.
By the way my Italian friends who live at highway 7 and islington area think that the brt is destroying their neighbourhood. And they are one of the lucky people who don't live to far from the highway so will be able to walk to the road to access a bus
 

SunriseChampion

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That's the thing...I know professors, lawyers, doctors, consultants etc. working in their seventies who are certainly financially comfortable to retire if they so wished. How many tradespeople still work well into their senior years?
Too many. Not sure what they're trying to accomplish, but I feel bad for them. To be fair, most have seemed at least somewhat content.
I think they'd die within weeks upon ceasing to work.
 

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