Despite what Ford says The Streetcar in Toronto is here to stay.

[GenerationW]

It is. Most of the line, and most of the stations are in Toronto. Anyone who drives in the area around the Allen, Finch, Sheppard, Steeles, York University anywhere close to rush-hour is well aware how useful that line will be. That the Province of Ontario and Region of York decided to extend the line 2 stations further than makes sense is unfortunate, but should have little impact on TTC; and at least will cut-down on the amount of traffic bottlenecking trying to cross 407.

It's great to see so much subway construction being started under Miller; one of the greatest achievements of one of our greatest mayors!

Meanwhile back on Earth........Miller had little to do with it -- he just went along for the ride. And he had no choice after the feds, the province and York Region came together and presented him with a fait accompli. Miller would have looked like a complete fool if he turned down the contributions of three other governments to a subway extension. If Greg Sorbara had not spearheaded the Spadina extension, only a fool believes Miller would have included it in Transit City.

Arguments against this extension have to do with its length and priority. I don't think anyone believes it won't be very useful up to Steeles.

 

[nfitz]

Meanwhile back on Earth........Miller had little to do with it -- he just went along for the ride. And he had no choice after the feds, the province and York Region came together and presented him with a fait accompli. Miller would have looked like a complete fool if he turned down the contributions of three other governments to a subway extension. If Greg Sorbara had not spearheaded the Spadina extension, only a fool believes Miller would have included it in Transit City.

Miller always put forward the extension of the Spadina subway as the number one priority. That was his choice. He put it out there, they funded it. For some reason you pretend that TTC hadn't already pushed it before any other government funding was announced.

And of course he's been very behind our other subway project for Eglinton.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Oh you're referring to what, the subway to middle of nowhere Vaughan? Now that's something to be proud of. Yet we have LRT obstructionists clamouring to get Transit City built before something that's actually important, namely the DRL.

And the Eglinton Crosstown is also a subway. A subway that uses light rail vehicles like Boston and Philadelphia, USA and other countries. Vehicles that are the same width as the Montréal Metro as well, but also longer and air-conditioned.

 

[Rainforest]

Miller always put forward the extension of the Spadina subway as the number one priority. That was his choice. He put it out there, they funded it. For some reason you pretend that TTC hadn't already pushed it before any other government funding was announced.

Actually, around 2003 Miller and Giambrone were pushind for Sheppard East subway and York U subway; Sheppard was #1 on their list. When the Province came up with the funding for Spadina extension to York U and 407, they happily accepted the south-of-Steeles section, and reluctanly agreed to the north-of-Steeles part in order to keep the provincial government happy.

Then, Transit City came ... and they abandoned Sheppard subway, but kept their commitment to Spadina extension.

 

[Chuck]

It's great to see so much subway construction being started under Miller; one of the greatest achievements of one of our greatest mayors!

It takes a real smart cookie to waste $8 billion of funding from upper levels of government on streetcar lines. Even by the TTC's own bloated cost estimate, that's over 40 km of subway when municipal funding is added.

You mark my word - Toronto will not receive another funding boost of this magnitude for decades to come, regardless of who wins the next mayoral election. It will take more than a generation to undo the potential lost under Miller's leadership. Hopefully Toronto will recover this lost ground by the time our grand kids are born.

You can also mark my word on this one - once Transit City boosts ridership on the subway to the point that boarding is no longer feasible for inner city residents like myself, I and many other choice riders will resume driving to work.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It takes a real smart cookie to waste $8 billion of funding from upper levels of government on streetcar lines. Even by the TTC's own bloated cost estimate, that's over 40 km of subway when municipal funding is added.

You mark my word - Toronto will not receive another funding boost of this magnitude for decades to come, regardless of who wins the next mayoral election. It will take more than a generation to undo the potential lost under Miller's leadership. Hopefully Toronto will recover this lost ground by the time our grand kids are born.

You can also mark my word on this one - once Transit City boosts ridership on the subway to the point that boarding is no longer feasible for inner city residents like myself, I and many other choice riders will resume driving to work.

Oh, so you predict that oil prices will stay low and will be plentiful for decades and generations to come? Wow! Most economists are saying the opposite, that the price of oil and their products (gasoline, asphalt, etc.) will go up so high that public transit of all kinds will be needed to provide an alternative and cheaper method of transport.

You should buy all those abandoned sprawling subdivisions in the United States.

 

[EnviroTO]

Nonsense. There have been decades of nothing built. NDP governments, Liberal governments, and PC governments and a myriad of mayors all achieved less. To blame the mayor that actually got something done rather than blaming all the other governments that got nothing done is disingenuous.

 

[nfitz]

Actually, around 2003 Miller and Giambrone were pushind for Sheppard East subway and York U subway; Sheppard was #1 on their list. When the Province came up with the funding for Spadina extension to York U and 407, they happily accepted the south-of-Steeles section, and reluctanly agreed to the north-of-Steeles part in order to keep the provincial government happy.

Yes, that's true ... they were also pushing for Sheppard initially as well.

Then, Transit City came ... and they abandoned Sheppard subway, but kept their commitment to Spadina extension.

By the time they came out with Transit City in 2007, Spadina was funded; provincial funding for the Spadina extension was promised in March 2006.

After waiting for years with no provincial or federal funding for Sheppard, the city did indeed drop their subway plans for LRT. Neither the province or Feds had shown any serious interest in the Sheppard subway since it was proposed in the early 1980s. The first piece was fully funded by Toronto. Clearly a more sensible plan was necessary.

 

[Dan416]

Yes, that's true ... they were also pushing for Sheppard initially as well.

By the time they came out with Transit City in 2007, Spadina was funded; provincial funding for the Spadina extension was promised in March 2006.

After waiting for years with no provincial or federal funding for Sheppard, the city did indeed drop their subway plans for LRT. Neither the province or Feds had shown any serious interest in the Sheppard subway since it was proposed in the early 1980s. The first piece was fully funded by Toronto. Clearly a more sensible plan was necessary.

If "sensible" is building a subway to Vaughan and then orphaning the Sheppard Subway, then clearly we have different ideas of what "sensible" is.

You know, I hope Ford wins just to piss YOU off nfitz. I don't care about the other Torontonians who may be affected by this. But at least he'll kill the SELRT and the rest of the godforsaken Transit City. If we need a scorched earth policy for the TTC, so be it.

 

[cacruden]

Oh, so you predict that oil prices will stay low and will be plentiful for decades and generations to come? Wow! Most economists are saying the opposite, that the price of oil and their products (gasoline, asphalt, etc.) will go up so high that public transit of all kinds will be needed to provide an alternative and cheaper method of transport.

You should buy all those abandoned sprawling subdivisions in the United States.

Oil is in relatively tight supply even given the wests economic near depression. China's requirements are continuing to increase, and if the economy recovers, oil will skyrocket within the following 5 years. It is also a reason why I am not overly concerned about oil and the environment - the oil based economy will come to a natural end - and relatively quickly. The market will then adjust and alternative fuels will become viable.

 

[nfitz]

You know, I hope Ford wins just to piss YOU off nfitz. I don't care about the other Torontonians who may be affected by this. But at least he'll kill the SELRT and the rest of the godforsaken Transit City. If we need a scorched earth policy for the TTC, so be it.

Wow ...

Besides, Ford has already said his subway plan won't happen if Ontario won't go along ... and Ontario has said it won't go along. I'd be very surprised if the Sheppard East LRT was killed even IF Ford was elected, given that Toronto is contributing 0% to it's cost.

 

[Calrissian]

Wow ...

Besides, Ford has already said his subway plan won't happen if Ontario won't go along ... and Ontario has said it won't go along. I'd be very surprised if the Sheppard East LRT was killed even IF Ford was elected, given that Toronto is contributing 0% to it's cost.

Thats the beauty of Coruscanti's death wish; the one project that WILL survive if Ford were elected would be the SELRT, with it the furthest along of all the projects, they won't turn back on that one, and Rob really doesn't give sh*t about Scarb, so long as its not costing him anything.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In the late 1940's and 1950's, the TTC bought used PCC streetcars from the United States at bargain prices. Some of those streetcars were still fresh and new when the TTC got them. You could say the cities that sold their streetcars to Toronto were subsidizing the purchase for the TTC. The TTC got a bargain with those streetcars during their operation in Toronto.

In 2011, the TTC will start to receive its new low-floor air-conditioned streetcars, with the higher levels of government subsidizing some of the funds. The subsidy being almost like the discount the TTC got for its used PCC streetcars.

 

[Rainforest]

You know, I hope Ford wins just to piss YOU off nfitz. I don't care about the other Torontonians who may be affected by this. But at least he'll kill the SELRT and the rest of the godforsaken Transit City. If we need a scorched earth policy for the TTC, so be it.

If you live in Mississauga and have no personal stake in TTC, then of course you can afford such wishes.

I hope however that Torontonians, who would be actually affected, wish otherwise and vote otherwise. Killing SELRT and replacing it with subway could possibly make sense, but killing SELRT or TC just for the sake of doing so could not.

 

[Rainforest]

Oh, so you predict that oil prices will stay low and will be plentiful for decades and generations to come? Wow! Most economists are saying the opposite, that the price of oil and their products (gasoline, asphalt, etc.) will go up so high that public transit of all kinds will be needed to provide an alternative and cheaper method of transport.

Higher oil prices are very likely to happen, but that fact can't increase the physical capacity of Yonge subway. If people can't squeeze in and no alternative lines are built, they will drive even if they have to spend a much larger portion of their income on gasoline.