Debate on the merits of the Scarborough Subway Extension

[syn]

I'm not sure that would make any sense - might as well keep the upgraded SRT and forget about a subway. I'd be all for that.

Otherwise, just dump the subway and build the Crosstown East extension. It can be looped with STC back to Kennedy (running in both directions) to provide a transfer free connection to the Yonge Line for far more residents than the SSE extension would, along with real rapid transit for in-Scarborough trips.

Scarborough subway advocates claim they care about Scarborough transit but refuse to support any plan that would actually enhance transit in Scarborough.

 

[OneCity]

No Sheppard LRT, only subway and LRT from STC to Malvern Centre to UTSC?

Sorry not sure what this meant. The PC's made it clear that for them to take over the subways the City has to come up big for the start of Eglinton East LRT funding

The Sheppard corridor is currently under review. The subway loop is going to be built and PC's already proceeding that way. Liberals will be fully on board shortly as things shake out. The current Eglinton East is to UTSC with a likely push to Morningside (Malvern) which will make sense for the maintenance yard at Conlins while they re-design Sheppard.

What I want to see is phase#2 Eglinton East LRT conceptual proposal. Will it continue to Malvern Town Centre and loop back to Sheppard subway or Malvern Town Centre will be a line run back to SCC, with the Eglinton East connected somewhere north of the 401

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We built a subway to Vaughan Centre with half the population and they are giving themselves Urban design awards. We hear very little bad press, and no one seems to be really complaining. Such an unproportional amount of hate that gets thrown around when it come to Scarborough Centre.

Don't worry. We'll start complaining January 2018, when it becomes apparent that nobody is going to use some of these stations.

 

[syn]

Don't worry. We'll start complaining January 2018, when it becomes apparent that nobody is going to use some of these stations.

Not to mention that it's already done. No one is complaining because there's absolutely no point in doing so now.

Kind of like how no one complains about the RT having some woefully underused stations even though it opened 30 years ago.

The SSE is worth complaining about because it's another mistake we can avoid.

 

[Cobra]

Another question to ask is that if the PC takes the SSE file off the city hands, how likely is it that they stick to the 1 stop subway plan?

I think it's low and could see the 3 stop plan back if the feds match the PC contribution. It would end up being 3 stops for roughly the same price from the province's perspective if the feds pay for the other half.

Politically, it gets them more votes in Scarborough north of the 401 and they aren't attached to Crosstown East by dumping it on the city.

 

[RyanM12]

I'd like to see something like this as a fully built out SSE. It combines the best of both subway and LRT proposals.

I'd also like to see the old SRT corridor reused for the eventual Sheppard extension.

 

[M II A II R II K]

That would be greater if it split off from Line 2 from VP and continue downtown in an express like fashion so Scarborough riders aren’t hampered down suffering sitting through the entire Danforth as more people pile on station after station.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Since we're drawing lines on a map:

 

[RyanM12]

That would be greater if it split off from Line 2 from VP and continue downtown in an express like fashion so Scarborough riders aren’t hampered down suffering sitting through the entire Danforth as more people pile on station after station.

Nah, they could transfer to GO/RER/Smart track at Kennedy if they want - it would be the same thing. Besides, not everyone would be going to Union.

 

[OneCity]

Since we're drawing lines on a map:
View attachment 128485

Looks about right. Give or take some little details like the possibility the Sheppard subway cutting short at Kennedy and adding a stop at City Centre North West (Brimley)

Another question to ask is that if the PC takes the SSE file off the city hands, how likely is it that they stick to the 1 stop subway plan?

I think it's low and could see the 3 stop plan back if the feds match the PC contribution. It would end up being 3 stops for roughly the same price from the province's perspective if the feds pay for the other half.

Politically, it gets them more votes in Scarborough north of the 401 and they aren't attached to Crosstown East by dumping it on the city.

If PC's win this is almost a guarantee, even if they don't they are painted the Liberals as not doing enough here so it will be interesting how they respond.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Looks about right. Give or take some little details like the possibility the Sheppard subway cutting short at Kennedy and adding a stop at City Centre North West (Brimley)

Should Line 4 and Line 2 at STC use the same platform level (no transfer), or require a transfer by going up/down a level? I’d say Line 2 should to able to continue north towards Steeles, with potential to enter Markham, which will make McCowan a prime corridor for intensification.

 

[OneCity]

Should Line 4 and Line 2 at STC use the same platform level (no transfer), or require a transfer by going up/down a level? I’d say Line 2 should to able to continue north towards Steeles, with potential to enter Markham, which will make McCowan a prime corridor for intensification.

You are correct with this alignment it may not work to short cut. It was the "big bend" proposal that allowed for the Agincourt short cut much simpler. The short cut always made more sense as it would pick up Kennedy and the 401 and add a City Centre stop to the west.

 

[Leo_Chan]

You are correct with this alignment it may not work to short cut. It was the "big bend" proposal that allowed for the Agincourt short cut much simpler. The short cut always made more sense as it would pick up Kennedy and the 401 and add a City Centre stop to the west.

Not the Big Bend, but similar idea (with a transfer):

 

[Cobra]

Not the Big Bend, but similar idea (with a transfer):
View attachment 128499

All 3 lines ending at McCowan & Sheppard makes more sense:

• Crossing the 401 1 time instead of 3 times
• Opportunity to massively redevelop Sheppard Avenue East
• TTC route could be rerouted more efficiently
• Cost saving

 

[OneCity]

All 3 lines ending at McCowan & Sheppard makes more sense:

• Crossing the 401 1 time instead of 3 times
• Opportunity to massively redevelop Sheppard Avenue East
• TTC route could be rerouted more efficiently
• Cost saving

If this alignment proceeds there really is not need for debate as it would be easier to keep boring north. If GO RER proceeds then Agincourt is well covered anyway. If it stalls out then the opportunity will always be there in the future