nfitz
Superstar
Why would you not have to tap off the GO Train? You tap off GO Trains now to board GO Buses at Union (and elsewhere). And TTC has said that even in fare paid areas, that you'll have to tap to enter surface vehicles.
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Debate on the merits of the Scarborough Subway Extension
- Thread starter kEiThZ
- Start date
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Well, what I'm imagining is a situation where you tap on where you start and off where you end. Whether it be bus, streetcar, subway, train, or express train, it would be the same fare.
Tapping on when transferring in a fare paid area and no tap offs is ideal for data collection (which I support) and better fare inspections.
nfitz
Superstar
Why imagine? Policy is clear. No plans to require tap-offs on surface vehicles. Creates a nightmare when entire crush-loaded vehicle tries to tap out at terminus.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
It's not just tap off dwell time. Bus terminals, if any, are supposed to be in extremely inconvenient places for passengers. It's not logical to take RER if you have a 5 minute transfer between the station and the bus when you can just take the subway and be right at the bus terminal.
For Union, you'd need to re-engineer the concourses a little and add extra fare gates, but you could work it out so that no transfer tap is required at Union. This could work assuming faregates are coming to outer go stations (and with all the work planned for some and the fact that platform access is limited to a few entrances), I don't see why not. It would cut the need for fare inspectors and most station employees and increase platform safety by keeping weirdos off the platform. I think it could be a worthy investment.
However, assuming it's not possible, I don't see why tapping at Union is a huge deal. There are going to be plenty of faregates and as long as someone doesn't have to tap twice. The card would recognize that you're transferring at union and charge it as a transfer accordingly. If you were leaving the GO fare paid area and not entering the TTC fare-paid area, you'd be subject to regular rules.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Extending Line 2 is a no brainer. The problem really is how many stops. $3+ billion for a single stop is ludicrous at best. At least having 2 stops, it might be easier to swallow.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
What I don't understand is why the city is unwilling to study cut and cover or aboveground line 2 extensions.
sixrings
Senior Member
because above ground is an insult to Scarborough residents egos whom we are building this for in the first place in order to buy votes.
Richard White
Senior Member
Cut and Cover is insanely disruptive. In the 1940s and 1950s you could get away with it. Do that now and you will be hung up on a meathook in Nathan Phillips Square.
syn
Senior Member
Unfortunately that isn't going to happen. Adding stops costs money, and this extension is already between $4 billion and $5 billion with nothing in between.
sixrings
Senior Member
what sounds nice on paper often is political suicide.. There was an option to close the Allen for a year to build the crosstown at a considerable savings but that was a no go. It may be cheaper but people don't give a damn. Part of the reason the DRL stations are so deep is to avoid noise at the surface during construction. Basically every time we do construction we are walking on egg shells from NIMBYs. In the old days people didn't have the same voice to complain. Now they just post stuff to facebook, instagram, twitter. The politicians dont want to lose their job over something so silly so they just do what the people want. That or promise to do something and keep delaying it until they finally retire.
I kept hearing during the St Clair construction that it was a disaster and that subways are constructed much easier. Well the parts which they have constructed as LRT on Eglinton so far is basically a subway and it has created the same business loss and traffic nightmare as the st clair street car. The difference is the St Clair project took much shorter time to construct. The good news is today St clair is booming. Condo proposals everywhere.
I kept hearing during the St Clair construction that it was a disaster and that subways are constructed much easier. Well the parts which they have constructed as LRT on Eglinton so far is basically a subway and it has created the same business loss and traffic nightmare as the st clair street car. The difference is the St Clair project took much shorter time to construct. The good news is today St clair is booming. Condo proposals everywhere.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
At least the Spadina extension is expresslike all the way through until it reaches downtown. This extension would only be expresslike until it reaches the Danforth and then you have to sit through a ton of stations to get downtown.
BurlOak
Senior Member
They need to use cut-and-cover in conjunction with pre-cast concrete.
It would be a continuous operation dig trench, followed by laying culvert, followed by backfill. Each area would be closed for a couple of weeks. The trade-off would be that stations would be much shallower, and they would be take 1 year instead of 3. They would have "Bailey Bridges" over them, so the road would not be closed for a full year. What they did in the 1950 is completely different from what can be done now. Use precast concrete, fast set concrete, etc.
TBM has some a mystical sound to it. Now that Eglinton and Spadina extension are in recent memory, the disruption of TBM is known. It is not trivial so the trade-off of speeding construction may be viewed more favourably.
Trade-off. A bit of closure mid-block in exchange for shorter construction duration at intersections (stations). Result is less cost, and a more accessible transit line (no need to descend 5 sets of escalators).
sixrings
Senior Member
I don't think you can say because people in north York experienced the chaos of finch and keele construction that those in scarborough understand what they are getting themselves into. Passing construction once in a blue moon and dealing with it everyday are completely diferrent things. Living across from eglinton west was great a lrt is coming in year one. Year two is the good news is imagine our property values when this is done. Year three wtf am I doing here. Year four I'm selling this damn place even if I'd make much more money waiting forthe lrtto bedone.
Sakraycore
Active Member
even if scarborough was covered in LRT, it would still be a suburb through and through. then again, the 1 additional subway stop at Scarborough town centre has the potential to transform the immediate area unlike kennedy and victoria park since it's already home to a lively shopping centre. anyways that's what i believe. with a strong connection to the backbone of transportation, it can do wonders to entice use of public transportation lol. I mean really, considering the weather in toronto, RT/LRT is kind of shitty to use for most of the year. but subway is not dependent on weather at all, it's good all year around unless you built it above ground then yea...
kEiThZ
Superstar
Regional rail would be more than just the Stouffville GO corridor. If you have 15 min service with RER on every GO corridor through Scarborough, you don't go to STC if you're heading downtown. You go to the nearest GO station.
And with RER, you will have a faster ride. Even with 1/3 the frequencies of the subway, regional rail would be faster. Compare travel times from Kennedy station via GO or subway.
GO: 20 mins
Subway: 40 mins
So even if you were to wait 15 mins for another train (because you just missed the last one), you'd still get there faster than the subway.
Now extend this scenario to every GO station in Scarborough.