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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Rainforest said:
And regarding the idea to make Scarborough a separate city to prevent them from getting a subway: sure that's how Vaughan failed to get their subway ? They fought hard, but being separate from Toronto, they had no chance ..
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I don't exactly think it's comparable. Scarborough could easily add a network of LRTs on several major roads which would make a difference connecting to the drl. Vaughans roads are so far apart a lot network wouldn't be as helpful.
 
Rainforest said:
And regarding the idea to make Scarborough a separate city to prevent them from getting a subway: sure that's how Vaughan failed to get their subway ? They fought hard, but being separate from Toronto, they had no chance ..
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Clearly, it is being a part of Toronto that is detrimental to ones efforts to get a subway.
 
Rainforest said:
The results of elections in Scarborough during the last ~ 10 years, at all levels, pretty clearly show that the subway is more popular. Everyone who got elected, either positioned themselves as a subway proponent, or didn't strongly associate themselves with either transit choice. Literally noone got elected by running an anti-subway campaign.

Sure, the elections aren't just about transit, and aren't about a particular transit project. But when you see the same pattern over and over again: noone wants to associate themselves with one of the solutions to a prominent public need, then you can be pretty sure that the said solution is not popular with the voters.

SSE detractors surely could field a few candidates and try their luck, but where are those candidates? crickets ..
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sixrings said:
You could only vote for a pro subway candidate in Scarborough the last 10 years because that's what every councillor ran on. It's much easier to get votes promising a Ferrari than offering a Lexus. So everyone did just that even though I'm pretty sure some of them had to think this is a stupid idea.
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Apparently, Scarborough subway advocates don't realize that Scarborough is already getting truly world class rail technology in the form of Maglev, though more specifically, the Maglev is in the Toronto Zoo. How ungrateful. It is akin to promising a Ferrari when a fully automated Tesla is already being provided.
 
Johnny Au said:
Apparently, Scarborough subway advocates don't realize that Scarborough is already getting truly world class rail technology in the form of Maglev, though more specifically, the Maglev is in the Toronto Zoo. How ungrateful. It is akin to promising a Ferrari when a fully automated Tesla is already being provided.
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Maglev in the Zoo is nice for the Zoo visitors, but I am not sure how that is relevant for the remaining 99% of transit users in Scarborough.
 
sixrings said:
You could only vote for a pro subway candidate in Scarborough the last 10 years because that's what every councillor ran on. It's much easier to get votes promising a Ferrari than offering a Lexus. So everyone did just that even though I'm pretty sure some of them had to think this is a stupid idea.
Click to expand...

But the SSE opponents state that they want to invest the same amount overall in Scarborough transit, just pick different projects. That would be like promising multiple Lexuses, for the cost of that Ferrari.

I get it that there were no anti-subway candidate available to vote for, but the question is why nobody tried that approach to stand out. Apparently, noone believed that would be sellable ..
 
Rainforest said:
But the SSE opponents state that they want to invest the same amount overall in Scarborough transit, just pick different projects. That would be like promising multiple Lexuses, for the cost of that Ferrari.

I get it that there were no anti-subway candidate available to vote for, but the question is why nobody tried that approach to stand out. Apparently, noone believed that would be sellable ..
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Go look at the electoral history of these plans. They flop completely, get mocked by the winner and usually end up adopted a few years later.

Remember Tory calling bus enhancements irresponsible?
 
Bureaucromancer said:
Go look at the electoral history of these plans. They flop completely, get mocked by the winner and usually end up adopted a few years later.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that happens.

There was a specific question: do the residents / voters in Scarborough prefer the subway, altrernatives to the subway, or split about evenly. My take is that the subway is more popular, and that's based on the fact that people running for the public offices side with the subway option, and not with the alternatives. Those who run and succeed, usually know what their voters want to hear.

Doesn't give any assurance that those elected will honor their own promises.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
My friend, I lived in Scarborough for several years. Way in east Scarborough too, by UTSC. So please don’t lecture me about expressing my discontent with local transit in Scarborough. I know how shit it is. I remember many hour long bus rides just to visit friends elsewhere in Scarborough.

And yea, that experience is exactly why I continue to insist that surface transit improvements are the single most impactful thing we could do to improve transit there. Make the buses come more frequent, and install BRT on all the major streets. Finish the Eglinton East LRT so travelling from east Scarborough to downtown isn’t anywhere near as painful. Turn the GO lines into a proper surface metro system. And, yea, build the Relief Line on Don Mills so I can get Downtown nice and quick. All of these things would’ve made life way easier than this Line 2 extension.

Believe me, I had plenty of hours stuck on the bus to evaluate which proposals would’ve been most beneficial to me. The Scarborough Subway would rank maybe 5th on that list. Taking the Eglinton LRT over to the DRL or Guildwood GO to get Downtown would’ve been a dream come true for me
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Lectured? Gimme a break, Im asking just to stop making chit up with the unnecessary wisecracks a few here use often to boost the over the top anti-SSE stance.

Back towards topic

I fully agree that BRT is needed across certain roads. A network approach which we finally arrived at was all that was ever needed, with better connectivity as the number one priority and specific local enhancements where necessary. Our local bus network here is actually petty damn good overall. Far better then anywhere else i lived before moving to Scarborough over 10 years ago and there is a reason its so well used. That's not to say incremental changes to improve frequencies or bottlenecks are not also a high priority from some parts but any extension of Sheppard subway or the RT replacement should have put better Central connectivity and less transfers as mandatory and common sense.

As someone who currently uses both local and express buses along the EELRT route i can support line for the better frequency and beautification aspects but to be honest its the least of priorities for actually moving people here. And removing car lanes in this areas is very counter productive for congestion until we build a network that improves access. This line would change very little to both my short trips or my overall longer commutes at this time

The SSE and removal of the transfer is huge for the Centres future and will also provide far better central stop locations to a main Toronto transit feeder on Sheppard and Lawrence. The other out of place RT stops can be served by bus, as they should until a line to cross the Centre is needed in the future. Then they can be revisited.

The DRL should never have been dealt with in the same discussion or pitted agaisnt as the SSE. Both were always needed and the SSE could have been built in a more cost effective manner but City council was incapable of working together on alternate, reasonable solutions. It is great that the City has lost the ability to continue to eat itself and do further damage to transit planning. The subway will be fixed from the sad state the City left it in and we can move on to hopefully focus on many of the other issue here including finishing the Sheppard subway.
 
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OneCity said:
Lectured? Gimme a break, Im asking just to stop making chit up with the unnecessary wisecracks a few here use often to boost the over the top anti-SSE stance.

Back towards topic

I fully agree that BRT is needed across certain roads. A network approach which we finally arrived at was all that was ever needed, with better connectivity as the number one priority and specific local enhancements where necessary. Our local bus network here is actually petty damn good overall. Far better then anywhere else i lived before moving to Scarborough over 10 years ago and there is a reason its so well used. That's not to say incremental changes to improve frequencies or bottlenecks are not also a high priority from some parts but any extension of Sheppard subway or the RT replacement should have put better Central connectivity and less transfers as mandatory and common sense.

As someone who currently uses both local and express buses along the EELRT route i can support line for the better frequency and beautification aspects but to be honest its the least of priorities for actually moving people here. And removing car lanes in this areas is very counter productive for congestion until we build a network that improves access. This line would change very little to both my short trips or my overall longer commutes at this time

The SSE and removal of the transfer is huge for the Centres future and will also provide far better central stop locations to a main Toronto transit feeder on Sheppard and Lawrence. The other out of place RT stops can be served by bus, as they should until a line to cross the Centre is needed in the future. Then they can be revisited.

The DRL should never have been dealt with in the same discussion or pitted agaisnt as the SSE. Both were always needed and the SSE could have been built in a more cost effective manner but City council was incapable of working together on alternate, reasonable solutions. It is great that the City has lost the ability to continue to eat itself and do further damage to transit planning. The subway will be fixed from the sad state the City left it in and we can move on to hopefully focus on many of the other issue here including finishing the Sheppard subway.
Click to expand...
Imagine if City Council had agreed to the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown - but pushed for elevation through the Don Valley and near Kennedy as Ford had wanted. Then use the savings, plus the other $600M, to put the DRL as the higher priority than Sheppard subway.
If only the goal had been to create good transit instead of to defeat Ford.
(although I suppose some of you might think that Finch LRT was a higher priority).
 
BurlOak said:
Imagine if City Council had agreed to the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown - but pushed for elevation through the Don Valley and near Kennedy as Ford had wanted. Then use the savings, plus the other $600M, to put the DRL as the higher priority than Sheppard subway.
If only the goal had been to create good transit instead of to defeat Ford.
(although I suppose some of you might think that Finch LRT was a higher priority).
Click to expand...

K, hold on. You might have to give me a refresher about when Ford wanted elevated on Eglinton East. I certainly remember this stuff like it was yesterday and don't ever recall this happening. Was pretty clear McGuinty gave Metrolinx the directive that the whole thing was to be underground, which is what Ford made clear too.
 
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