Allandale25
Senior Member
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syn
Senior Member
I like how you conveniently ignore that you completely made up numbers to suit your argument.
The commute from Finch & Kipling to Yonge Station is 70 minutes. From Morningside & Finch it's 72 minutes.
As @Amare pointed out, the SSE will do nothing to address that.
Scarborough has twice the population, but the population density is only a few hundred apart. It also has a dedicated rapid transit line already, and has for over three decades.
Making things up again?
$5 billion isn't an arbitrary number. It's the upper cost provided by city staff since the estimates provided at the time were based on very little work. Based on the continual cost increases, the one stop cost may go even higher.
The DRL Long at four times the cost of the SSE is still a far, far greater value that will positively impact far more riders.
syn
Senior Member
The plan that will actually make it easier and faster for Scarborough residents to get downtown (which is supposedly the main reason for the SSE) is the one far less likely to be supported by Ford. How ironic.
Too bad their choice doesn't actually care about them.
Amare
Senior Member
Good riddance, he was one of the councillors who got more and more delusional as his tenure went on. I dont know where he went wrong, because in the beginning he actually had good intentions and up until around 2012 he did some really good work. He really went of the rails after his OneCity delusional plan.
JSF-1
Active Member
He was an opportunist. He was fully onboard with the SRT update back in 2006, then when the winds blew towards the LRT he jumped ship to that. When the winds once again blew in another direction towards the Subway he laid anchor there. I guarantee had the political winds moved in another a direction he would be following closely behind. It's commendable that he wanted better transit for Scarborough however he also showed he didn't care how or what would get built and merely bought into the flavor of the month. De Baeremaeker wasn't a leader but a follower.
syn
Senior Member
Looks like those winds are blowing again...
Supporting one-stop Scarborough subway was a 'mistake': De Baeremaeker
Kind of funny how major officials that resign (Keesmaat, Byford) share their true feelings once they're no longer forced to support the SSE.
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crs1026
Superstar
Amare
Senior Member
Hopefully it does so he knows never to step foot in City Hall in any capacity ever again.
pstogios
Senior Member
From that article:
“There are people who look at them and say we can never trust these people today,” he said. “I cannot trust my downtown colleagues because I know it's them first, us second.”
This is exactly why this guy should never have been a public servant. Feeding animosity between people just because they live in different parts of the city is just evil. Good riddance!
He has never understood why people from all parts of the city oppose the SSE: it’s not about “Scarborough second”. It never has been. It’s because we want our hard-earned tax dollars to be spent rationally and not politically. Rational transit planning (a concept totally lost on this idiot and particular people on this board) by experts has repeatedly shown that Scarborough doesn’t have the density or ridership to warrant a subway extension. Full stop.
BurlOak
Senior Member
- We need someone to admit that the best plan was the SRT upgrade from 2006. It's now too late (SmartTrack on the corridor). Politics got in way and the switch was made to LRT.
- Then they need to admit that the connected ECLRT/SRT was the next best plan from 2012. It's now too late (ECLRT progressed too far). Politics got in the way with the Liberals hiding this report during City voting and provincial by-elections, and then Liberals jumping on the subway plan.
- The last thing to admit is that both the SSE and the transfer LRT plans are bad and could have been better (as demonstrated twice above). It was Liberal and City Council politics that got in the way and caused the mess. Tory was let down by Council (we just followed previous council decision) and by experts (Keesmaat was architect of 1 stop subway plan. The solution may be to open the door to find the next best solution - and not go back to failed plans.
- And the reasons those bad plan went forward (large City council, provincial Liberal government) are no longer in place so maybe we really can find the best solution (that's still available).
syn
Senior Member
I'd love to hear him explain that remark. Downtown hasn't seen a new subway station in about half a century, despite the highest demand.
His comments have me wondering if he sees himself running for political office again sometime down the road.
syn
Senior Member
When it comes to future expandability, the LRT plan was not 'bad' at all. It certainly wasn't the cheapest, but it offered the best combination of coverage, could easily handle the volume for a long time and could've been the start of a larger network.
Northern Light
Superstar
I just have to laugh, the one and only time @BurlOak is generally in line with the left on something, I'm still left feeling uncomfortable.
Northern Light
Superstar
What we can all agree on in that the one-stop version of the subway plan is preposterous.
There really is room for a thoughtful discussion on Subway vs LRT and alignment; the discussion varies if you tinker with or extend alignments, its not a simple up/down comparison.
But a 3-stop version (Eglinton/Brimley, Lawrence McCowan, STC) can be thoughtfully discussed in the same breath as a revitalized LRT of similar route with/without some route extension.
What can not be managed is to take the one-stop idea seriously.
It never made any sense.
There really is room for a thoughtful discussion on Subway vs LRT and alignment; the discussion varies if you tinker with or extend alignments, its not a simple up/down comparison.
But a 3-stop version (Eglinton/Brimley, Lawrence McCowan, STC) can be thoughtfully discussed in the same breath as a revitalized LRT of similar route with/without some route extension.
What can not be managed is to take the one-stop idea seriously.
It never made any sense.
OneCity
Senior Member
Agreed. Middle ground would have removed the transfer
- If we were keeping the old out of place corridor and keeping the transfer: Then an SRT upgrade was the cost effective solution over LRT. LRT was a chance to sell residents that the new technology is world class and hope residents would be sold enough to support keeping a piece of infrastructure that isn't well liked here for its many shortcomings and what was built in equal or lesser Centres. This decision failed on the poor alignment, poor connectively, and poor maintenance of an out of place technology
- If we were looking to better connect: The BDL extension or ECLRT on the old corridor should have been put head to head. Both were good
- If we were looking for a more central solution and remove the transfer: The current alignment is better than all the above. While it may not seem like the right decision financially since we are aware of the geological challenges, in the bigger picture of transit infrastructure and inflation the extra cost will be minimal in the long run. Given the possible addition of Smarttrack. on Lawrence this line will provide great benefits.
It sucks the geological conditions are problematic on the current corridor and worse there was no interest for compromise on council. Such a questionable desire for LRT which was continuing and added new transfers. There would have been no support to overturn the plan had it been ECLRT or BDL on the old corridor. If a plan can be overturned with massive political support, something was obviously not right.
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