syn
Senior Member
The argument is to invest the money in a way that makes sense.
The differential in relative price is not just a few billion dollars. I guess it's easy not to worry about cost when the rest of the city is footing most of the bill.
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The argument is to invest the money in a way that makes sense.
The differential in relative price is not just a few billion dollars. I guess it's easy not to worry about cost when the rest of the city is footing most of the bill.
Amare
Senior Member
Rexdale is spoiled compared to Scarborough when it comes to transit? That's the first i've ever heard of that; try telling that to residents in Rexdale, I guarantee you 99% of them would tell you that you're categorically wrong.
The 191 is overcapacity and cant accommodate all of the demand. There is regularly a 10-15 min gap in service during both the morning and afternoon rush. The 45E is convenient if one happens to live close to Kipling. If not, residents would have to rely on one of the inconvenient east-west routes (ie: the 52 Lawrence West or 36 Finch West) which are similarly overcapacity and riders are often forced to ensure 10-15 min waits on inconsistent vehicle headways. If one has to rely on the Finch West or Lawrence West bus, it could easily unnecessarily add 20-30 mins extra to a commute.
This is exactly why we dont get any kind of transit built in this city, we are constantly pitting each borough in Toronto against each other and saying "area X is more deserving of higher order transit compared to area Y". We have politicians who exploit this thought process (ie: Doug Ford) and pander to this ill-conceived notion that we should build transit only in one area of the city, while another area of the city which is similarly deprived of transit doesnt get anything. There is nothing that is preventing us from providing transit to multiple areas of the city via short extensions of the subway, instead of putting all of our eggs into one basket with mega-extensions which make non financial sense whatsoever.
Unfortunately, many Torontonians have been caught up in this delusion that Area X deserves more transit compared to Area Y. Both Etobicoke and Scarborough desperately need more transit, as to does the Downtown Core, as well as North York and East York.
JSF-1
Active Member
Will it really though? They will still need to take the bus to either STC or Kennedy depending on the route. From there the time savings on the Subway are only a couple of minutes, but guess what happens when they get to Yonge. Those crowds are still there and they get the luxury of continuing to wait for 2 or 3 trains pass by. Literally nothing changes in this regard.
syn
Senior Member
That's what's unfortunate.
The Ford approach is working just as they wanted it to work.
It isn't about who's most 'deserving', it's about what makes the most sense for moving people around the city - and that's important to keep in mind. The TTC's mandate does not cover regional transit - it's about the most efficient way to provide access and move people around the city.
OneCity
Senior Member
Large parts of both areas are heavily neglected and poorly connected. Scarborough would have been far better without building he RT line which went thru a rail corridor alignment where very few actually live are of this massive suburb. Its OK going thru the Centre, but forces passenger a transfer after to connect to the Citys infrastructure. This was not good transit, it was a joke.
I have little doubt he'll deliver a proper line with stops in Scarborough with the SSE and have Sheppard under the early stages of design. Sheppard is not meant to be built immediately , its meant to be a carrot to dangle and solidify the Scarborough voter base for some time while SSE, DRL, Yonge are built first. The Sheppard design will take some time but it will follow in the que under this admin as next in line. His Pickering subway comment was nothing more than a gesture to people in the eastern GTA that he acknowledges them and to send the Left into a deranged frenzy. Its not happening in our lives but would say it was a very effective statement on both fronts.
As for the DRL what I think many here underestimate is Dougs desire to stick it to the local Left (moreso the NDP fraction). Doug has a grudge against this party on council, who have had a stronghold for some time, but not a grudge on the residents. There might be nothing more gratifying then sticking it to his old council enemies and delivering the holy grail projects of the DRL. For this file its moreso a battle on public transit ideologies and he's been vocally against poorly implemented transit like what we have seen with the bike lanes and much of our streetcar network, "war on the car" type of building and questionably unsafe streetcars and bike lanes around the City. Really this is all it comes down to.
People understand public transit needs to be built for growth and relief, but the implementation on other forms that will change Ford in charge. Subways/ GO will be for the Province and if the City wants streetcars, surface LRT, or to integrate further bike it will go it almost alone under this admin. I actually feel there is a far better chance of seeing the DRL built under this admin then the Liberals, but we'll see soon enough.
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JSF-1
Active Member
You can pin part of the blame on Scarborough for this though. The City made absolutely no attempt the gentrify the area, instead focusing all its time on the Scarborough Town Centre and still managed to produce the worst planned and laid out City Centre in the GTA. at the same time the rest of the City remained a suburban wasteland. Scarborough could have easily re-zoned the lands by the RT for Residential/Commercial use but they didn't. Its no wonder the area around the RT is nothing but factories, the City made no attempt to change. Scarborough was and still is locked in this belief they can have all the "Big City Toys" without actually having to act like a "Big City". Maybe with RER we can finally remedy this problem and turn the area into a vibrant community but that remains to be seen. North York didn't seem to have a problem leveling Yonge street to turn it into what it is today, what is Scarborough's excuse? Also this has nothing to do with technology as we have already seen a massive development proposal for Vic Park and Eglinton and that's just for an LRT line at the surface. So really what the hell was Scarborough doing?
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OneCity
Senior Member
This is a loaded statement as this area is mired in politics even today. The industrial lands around the RT are even now being protected for whatever that is worth as manufacturing has become a rare species in Ontario and losses accelerated in the past decade with soaring hydro costs. So the area is what it is in the current City. The 905 has shown large commercial job creation is very possible if the City gets it act together. Hopefully the City can focus on ways to attract business in a similar manner. I feel amalgamation has also hindered any opportunity for a focused revitalization for decades in many areas in our inner suburbs. Time has long passed to not take focused responsibility as a Mega-City, blame game on past admins decades ago isn't going to be overly helpful. City are always changing from past decisions.
Based on the current landscape on the RT line only the Lawrence and SCC are required for transit stops along this disjointed corridor and both are currently planned to be heavily developed with high density. The SSE and Smarttrack stations cover these stops well and provide better connections to the City than the RT. Any other potential station will be green lighted for density and more centrally located stops on the SSE in close proximity to either the hospital or centrally located and populated areas also makes far greater sense to build if this corridor is moving forward
I agree with you that Scarborough needs to put the green light for density near any major transit stops and doubt anyone in power would be against this, I disagree its a "suburban wasteland". Its just needs a focused plan to revitalize in many different areas that have been ignored for some time. Band-aid transit solutions were not the answer. Tory and Ford will put the heart of Scarborough on the right track so to speak. Express bus, BRT and subway was all that was needed. Now with the Crosstown being built the EELRT might as well connect to finish the line to UTSC atleast but id be weary that Ford will support and line that removes car lanes on main arterials. The City may have to address this corridor on its own once the subways are taken out of their hands.
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syn
Senior Member
Excellent point.
Scarborough was it's own city until 1998 and did little to take advantage of the RT. Even after amalgamation, local councilors have done a terrible job in promoting growth and sensible planning.
Mississauga, even before 1998, had at least started to address these issues and continues to do so.
Ironically, the councilors SSE proponents are so gleefully supportive of are responsible for yet another colossal planning blunder.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
And the commute from Finch and Morningside or Sheppard and Meadowvale to the nearest subway station is an hour, if not more. What's your point? We are comparing apples and grapes here. Scarborough has more than twice the population of Etobicoke yet "Fordites" are being accused of picking one area over another based on merit apparently. Eesh!
SSE as a single stop proposal is indeed wasteful, 4 stops makes more sense, even if it winds up costing more than $5 billion (the arbitrary dollar amount you seem to be fixated on although the DRL could cost 4 times higher than that). If we'd just build things right the first time like never building the SRT in the first place and extending the subway to SCC from the '80s, it wouldn't cost the City billion$ to correct things now.
Amare
Senior Member
And yet we're going to have to spend billions of dollars in the future by correcting Tory's misguided decision to extend the Bloor-Danforth line 1 stop to Scarborough Town Centre and creating the longest continuous subway tunnel in the world.
The whole point of the matter is that this extension as currently proposed does little to help Scarborough as a whole, and a "1 hour commute from Finch to Morningside to STC" will still take "1 hour" even after this extension is complete. If you want someone to blame for that it will be John Tory.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
How many "GO train" stations does Scarborough have now? How many future "GO train" and "SmartTrack" stations will Scarborough have in the future? Which would provide "express" service within Scarborough, and unless Doug Ford cancels it, better transfer connecting with the TTC.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Add in the Midtown Corridor, and you have amazing transit coverage in Scarborough. It's also too bad that an the SRT couldn't be used as an express shuttle between a potential Ellesmere GO and STC.
cplchanb
Senior Member
thats IF all that gets built within our lifetimes. Currently we cant even decide on how to build 1 stop.
raptor
Senior Member
GdB just announced he is not seeking re-election
Allandale25
Senior Member
De Baeremaeker OUT.