Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[JSF-1]

Do we have any info about this project? Seems like while every other project in the world has moved forward to some degree the SSE is just sitting

All information on the project is being intentionally withheld until after the election, because Politics. Tory doesn't want to go into the election with a $4-$5 Billion Sword of Damocles hanging over his head. This is even more pertinent now that Keesmaat is in the race since she knows more about the project than he does (not to mention I'm sure she still has people in City Hall feeding her information).

 

[Hopkins123]

You can get from STC to Square One via GO Transit with one transfer.

Here's a question - what is the current demand for travel from Scarborough to Mississauga?

There's definitely a need to expand regional transit for more expedient travel across the GTA, but I think someone who lives in Ajax and goes to York should expect a long commute.




Downtown Toronto has been the major commercial/business centre for the region for decades. Why didn't Scarborough and Mississauga build their 'city centres' in better strategic locations? The answer is that they're suburbs that were designed as suburbs - for the car. They weren't designed for efficient transit.



It's actually a significant improvement over the bus.

There is no need to put the Crosstown underground in Scarborough.

If Downtown Toronto is forced to get by with streetcars, Scarborough will be fine with a new LRT.

I do agree that with the rapid growth of the GTA, the province needs to dramatically expand the GO Network to facilitate transit across the GTA.

Since when is Square One not a strategic location? Hurontario is the equivalent of Yonge Street to Peel Region and being right at the 403 makes commutes to any other part of the GTA a breeze. It's more centrally planned than Downtown Toronto's core which kneecapped the Spadina Expressway and/or Hwy 400 before they ever could have reached their full potential, leaving just the DVP as a means of getting northward.

Scarborough Centre also, wisely, has direct links to the 401 - since obviously convincing downtown elitists to admit that more than the rickshaw donkey cart from Kennedy that doesn't connect to any place else is needed will take an eternity to resolve.

 

[JSF-1]

And yet Downtown Toronto is the most successful part of the GTHA, while the rest of the Core area's stagnate or grow at a slow rate. If the only thing your downtown core has to offer is cars, cars, cars then its doomed to failure. Automotive Suburbs don't make good cities. Compare that to Downtown which is dense, and compact to the point you can walk or bike wherever; have a wealth of transit options at your doorstep (Streetcars, Bus, Subway, and Intercity Rail and even a small Airport) and its no mystery why Downtown has been seeing growth since the early 1900's. Always remember what built Downtown was not the Car or the Subway but infact the Streetcars in a denser urban grid.

Mississauga has thankfully figured this out with the Hurontario LRT, now if only they could integrate Streetsville GO into the Downtown plan. Unfortunately there is a block or two of suburban hell in between that needs to be dealt with.

 

[sixrings]

I am pretty sure that MCC, STC, and downtown Toronto are all served by one highway each. MCC has 403. STC has 401. Downtown Toronto has the gardner/DVP combo. If your idea of a central location is one that has access to highways then you must love VCC which has the 400 and 407 pass it.
Thanks for recognizing downtown as elite though. That's about the only thing you got accurate in your post.

Since when is Square One not a strategic location? Hurontario is the equivalent of Yonge Street to Peel Region and being right at the 403 makes commutes to any other part of the GTA a breeze. It's more centrally planned than Downtown Toronto's core which kneecapped the Spadina Expressway and/or Hwy 400 before they ever could have reached their full potential, leaving just the DVP as a means of getting northward.

Scarborough Centre also, wisely, has direct links to the 401 - since obviously convincing downtown elitists to admit that more than the rickshaw donkey cart from Kennedy that doesn't connect to any place else is needed will take an eternity to resolve.

 

[syn]

Since when is Square One not a strategic location? Hurontario is the equivalent of Yonge Street to Peel Region and being right at the 403 makes commutes to any other part of the GTA a breeze. It's more centrally planned than Downtown Toronto's core which kneecapped the Spadina Expressway and/or Hwy 400 before they ever could have reached their full potential, leaving just the DVP as a means of getting northward.

Scarborough Centre also, wisely, has direct links to the 401 - since obviously convincing downtown elitists to admit that more than the rickshaw donkey cart from Kennedy that doesn't connect to any place else is needed will take an eternity to resolve.

To add to what @JSF-1 and @sixrings have posted, here is the 'strategically located' Square One when it was built:

Here is Scarborough Town Centre:

The 'strategy' was to build their 'city centre' malls in locations most convenient for the automobile. Connectivity to the downtown core and transit were afterthoughts. I give McCallion credit for admitting not designing a transit friendly environment was one of her biggest mistakes.

If connectivity and connection to the core were priorities Mississauga and Scarborough would've built their city centers much closer to the lake.

Fortunately Mississauga is it's own city and has to deal with it's own issues. We inherited Scarborough and now have to pay for their planning mistakes with another giant planning mistake - another problem for the next generation to deal with.

 

[JSF-1]

Well If Scarborough wanted to care about transit for its Downtown, its Downtown would be at what is today Kennedy and Eglinton. That intersection just so happens to be on Eglinton which is Scarborough's Yonge Street, has Subway access (and eventually LRT access, although I can't hold this against the people of yesterday they could never have predicted the EC), and GO Train access. Not building on Eglinton was a boneheaded move considering even by the 70's it should have been clear Eglinton was going to be a major artery for the city. Hell the Scarborough City Centre being on Eglinton probably could have helped make a case for the Scarborough Expressway since it would have been a short trip south.

 

[steveintoronto]

You can thank the Province for that. Had they kept there nose's out of Metro's business the Etobicoke RT would have been built.

But the second SRT (ERT?) would never have happened if Scarborough got an express streetcar instead. Was Kipling station designed after Kennedy Station’s modifications?

And I'm sure people would've been quite happy to use it - which is really the point I'm making.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2012/06/whatever_happened_to_the_etobicoke_rt/

Do we have any info about this project? Seems like while every other project in the world has moved forward to some degree the SSE is just sitting

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the Fordites are frozen until they get their "Audit" up their Annals....

 

[Richard White]

Well If Scarborough wanted to care about transit for its Downtown, its Downtown would be at what is today Kennedy and Eglinton. That intersection just so happens to be on Eglinton which is Scarborough's Yonge Street, has Subway access (and eventually LRT access, although I can't hold this against the people of yesterday they could never have predicted the EC), and GO Train access. Not building on Eglinton was a boneheaded move considering even by the 70's it should have been clear Eglinton was going to be a major artery for the city. Hell the Scarborough City Centre being on Eglinton probably could have helped make a case for the Scarborough Expressway since it would have been a short trip south.

Hate to break it to you but Lawrence, Midland, Kingston Road and Brimley see more use than Eglinton in Scarborough. I have lived here all my life and those four streets see more use.

If anything Kingston Road is Scarboroughs Yonge St.. maybe even Midland.

 

[steveintoronto]

To add to what @JSF-1 and @sixrings have posted, here is the 'strategically located' Square One when it was built:

Choice of pics is superb in making the point.

Live by the internal combustion sword, die by the internal combustion sword...they made their choices, and now they blame others for it.

 

[JSF-1]

Hate to break it to you but Lawrence, Midland, Kingston Road and Brimley see more use than Eglinton in Scarborough. I have lived here all my life and those four streets see more use.

If anything Kingston Road is Scarboroughs Yonge St.. maybe even Midland.

True but Eglinton has the benefit of bisecting the entire City right into Mississauga so while movement may not be as high as other streets, Eglinton has the greatest utility. Its very much like Yonge street in the sense you can take Yonge from Toronto all the way to Lake Simcoe and beyond uninterrupted.

 

[pstogios]

Keesmaat is in the race since she knows more about the project than he does.

You bring up an excellent point. While Tory is hiding info on the latest cost estimate for the SSE (surely another escalation is due to be announced), Keesmaat is the perfect person to know if and communicate the ins and outs of demonstrating ridiculous this project is.

While I think she is too narrow-minded to be a solid candidate (what are her fiscal plans?) and that she doesn’t have much of a chance to win, if the only thing she does during the campaign is expose the truth behind how dumb of an idea the SSE is and how she was basically manipulated by Tory to push for it, then she will serve an incredibly valuable purpose for the electorate.

 

[BurlOak]

You bring up an excellent point. While Tory is hiding info on the latest cost estimate for the SSE (surely another escalation is due to be announced), Keesmaat is the perfect person to know if and communicate the ins and outs of demonstrating ridiculous this project is.

While I think she is too narrow-minded to be a solid candidate (what are her fiscal plans?) and that she doesn’t have much of a chance to win, if the only thing she does during the campaign is expose the truth behind how dumb of an idea the SSE is and how she was basically manipulated by Tory to push for it, then she will serve an incredibly valuable purpose for the electorate.

Her fingerprints are all over the SSE. It will make her look just as bad if not worse if the SSE costs go up and her original estimate was incorrect.

 

[pstogios]

Her fingerprints are all over the SSE. It will make her look just as bad if not worse if the SSE costs go up and her original estimate was incorrect.

It’s true, she was involved. She could claim that she supported the SSE only with the original funding envelope and paired with the Eglinton East LRT, not the monstrosity that is before us now. Or she could claim she was coerced by Tory and his cronies.

 

[JSF-1]

The smart political move would be the be the messenger. She was just doing her job, her ineffectual boss is the reason we are in the situation we are. Basically pin the blame on Tory since he was in charge, don't shoot the messenger which in this case is Keesmaat who was only doing what she was told. That would probably be the best way to play the game.

 

[pstogios]

The smart political move would be the be the messenger. She was just doing her job, her ineffectual boss is the reason we are in the situation we are. Basically pin the blame on Tory since he was in charge, don't shoot the messenger which in this case is Keesmaat who was only doing what she was told. That would probably be the best way to play the game.

To me it is crucially important that at least she bring up the astounding cost elevations of the SSE so as to kickstart a public debate. This needs to be a major election issue.