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sixrings
Senior Member
Transfers will always exist. We would have to redo the entire network to make everyone happy
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
You should not have to transfer when going along one corridor. The LRT would have been fine if it had a direct connection with the Crosstown, but it does not, and that makes it the worst choice of technology.
It's not a matter of transfers being cumbersome, it's about whether they should exist. If you're transferring at a point where 2 rapid transit lines intersect (ie St. George, Pape, or even Sheppard Yonge), that's fine, but it's not okay if both lines terminate at the same location. It costs billions of dollars in lost revenue (due to passenger disinterest in using transit) and in lost productivity.
And currently, we were talking about the GO transit transfers, which are extremely cumbersome and confusing. Many of them cannot be fixed without significant re-engineering (which metrolinx really should be doing but isn't (case and point: Leslie-Oriole, Kipling, and Union)). All I'm saying is that RER will not be faster for most commuters than the subway because these transfers increase trip times significantly.
Amare
Senior Member
A lot of Torontonians are just plain lazy. Some of them need to go to London or other European cities where it's not uncommon to have to walk 5-10 mins just to transfer between 2 lines, and having to walk up and down a bunch of very deep escalators.
The only people I feel sorry for who have to do transfers between lines, are people with mobility issues and those who are elderly, but yet it is very seldom that I hear complaints from them about having to transfer lines.
nfitz
Superstar
You are conveniently ignoring how mercilessly and frequently The Star attacked Miller in his second term.
Presumably the rest of your theory is also flawed.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Torontonians have no problem with fair transfers. The TTC requires that you make at least 2 transfers on your journey if you are heading downtown (if you live along the BD line, you take a neighbourhood bus to your station, transfer at BY or St George, 2 transfers total/Along the yonge subway, a bus to a mainline (ie Eglinton) then a bus to a station, 2 transfers total). These are fair because they are corridor based. In other words, you're always changing corridors when transferring. The Kennedy transfer gets a lot of criticism because the vast majority of people are heading north to the STC (~40K PPD). Why should we make so many people's lives more difficult when their commute is long and boring enough? This is like ending the Yonge subway at Sheppard Yonge and making people transfer to an LRT to Finch or NYC. It has many safety concerns (because platforms get full, sheppard itself feels a little dangerous some days as is) and it inconveniences a lot of people.
sixrings
Senior Member
Well we end thesubway at finch and we make people take a busup yonge. We end the subway at kipling and make people bus west
syn
Senior Member
If Scarborough Town Centre is on the same 'corridor' as the Bloor/Danforth line, I guess St Clair station is on the same corridor too.
Why should I have to transfer? The people of the Bloor/Danforth Line deserve a transfer free connection to St. Clair centre. It's only fair.
Seriously?!!? I'd think the transfer would add some excitement to the torture that is their commute.
If a long commute on a peaceful transit system makes their lives 'difficult' perhaps the problem is their perspective.
If they don't want long and boring commutes, perhaps they should
a) Consider moving closer to the location they're commuting to
b) Bring along a book, smartphone, etc. for amusement
What next? Will the TTC have to hire clowns and performers to ensure the people of Scarborough have entertaining rides? Perhaps we should hire 'carriers' to literally carry people from the RT to the subway? It's probably cheaper than this project.
The rationale for this extension has moved well beyond insanity.
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Streety McCarface
Senior Member
There's an extension planned for Yonge, and Kipling sees far less traffic. Even then, there's a decent push for a westward subway extension.
The other difference is that there's already rapid transit along the scarborough corridor. Not along the other ones.
There was a missing link between Sheppard West and York University. It even went as far as Vaughan. Was that necessary?
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sixrings
Senior Member
Theres a planned sheppard extension too. And another one to pickering. Soon to wonderland. And eventually the moon.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
I don't have a problem paying higher taxes for the SSE, a sheppard extension, the DRL (which is a must) or any other toronto subway extension that has some merit. I don't mind paying for the Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT, Jane LRT, or any other LRT that makes some sense (ie is a stand alone line and not an extension of an existing subway line. This is why I don't agree with the SRT extension or the SELRT (At least until RLN is built)) I do have a problem with spending money on a light rail line that creates more problems than it solves (increases trip times, costs 2 billion, puts the line out of commission for longer, decreases platform height and capacity of trains, and does not remove a transfer). If they wanted to upgrade the SRT, I can live with that. But half a billion seems a lot more sensible than 2 billion for a downgrade.
I also don't know of any pickering or Wonderland extension that is even being considered. Please explain yourself, because last I checked, there is nothing wrong with fantasising over what future transit in this city could look like.
steveintoronto
Superstar
The answer for all of these is RER, not subways, subways, subways.
How backward is the GTHA? The only people pushing for subways are self-centred entitled types with no understanding of what the RoW is doing. Small extensions of present subways, yes. But the subways towards to the core are already past saturation point. Just leave them as is, they're already tapped out, save for perhaps signal and control tweaking, and bypass them with...wait for it...duh...other forms of transit. Cheaper, faster, through-running to the regions, and standard gauge and available 'off the shelf'.
Of course, some think the best way to get to Vancouver is by DC3 stopping at every airport possible between here and there while others fly direct in modern jets.
And "no forced transfers" to those from the burbs to downtown, or the other side of Toronto. Or the other side of the region.
Beat that...
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pstogios
Senior Member
To argue that STC is on “the same corridor” as the BD line, when traveling from Kennedy Station requires a near-90 degree turn from eastward to northwards, is just laughable.
But for argument’s sake, let’s allow for the notion that Kennedy Station and STC are on the “same corridor” with a “forced transfer”. If you allow for that, then you must allow for literally hundreds of locations on the TTC network on “the same corridor” connected by “forced transfers”. Or you insult the sensibilities of thousands of TTC riders.
Just a few random examples:
-Dundas West Station and Dundas St and Royal York Road are connected by a “forced transfer” between the 505 streetcar and bus 30. But they are both on the “same corridor” of Dundas
-Kipling Station and Kipling and Lakeshore are connected by a “forced transfer” between Line 2 and bus 44. But they are both on the “same corridor” of Kipling
-Kingston Rd / Victoria Park and St Clair / Victoria park are connected by a “forced transfer” between 502/504 streetcars and bus 24 and then another “forced transfer” to bus 12. But they are both in the “same corridor” of Vic Park
I don’t need to go on.
If we take the logic that we must eliminate all transfers in the TTC just because some special snowflakes in Scarborough feel insulted, the city will go broke. Which is exactly the direction the rapidly-ballooning SSE is taking us.
But for argument’s sake, let’s allow for the notion that Kennedy Station and STC are on the “same corridor” with a “forced transfer”. If you allow for that, then you must allow for literally hundreds of locations on the TTC network on “the same corridor” connected by “forced transfers”. Or you insult the sensibilities of thousands of TTC riders.
Just a few random examples:
-Dundas West Station and Dundas St and Royal York Road are connected by a “forced transfer” between the 505 streetcar and bus 30. But they are both on the “same corridor” of Dundas
-Kipling Station and Kipling and Lakeshore are connected by a “forced transfer” between Line 2 and bus 44. But they are both on the “same corridor” of Kipling
-Kingston Rd / Victoria Park and St Clair / Victoria park are connected by a “forced transfer” between 502/504 streetcars and bus 24 and then another “forced transfer” to bus 12. But they are both in the “same corridor” of Vic Park
I don’t need to go on.
If we take the logic that we must eliminate all transfers in the TTC just because some special snowflakes in Scarborough feel insulted, the city will go broke. Which is exactly the direction the rapidly-ballooning SSE is taking us.
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sixrings
Senior Member
From your subway premier ""We're going to focus on being the most modern transit system in the world. We're going to build rapid underground transit that's going to extend, not only in Toronto, but we're the first government that's going to run a regional transportation system. So folks in Pickering eventually will be able to hop on a subway and get to downtown Toronto. People of Markham and the outlying areas, over time, will be on a subway, to make sure that we get traffic moving."
JSF-1
Active Member
"but we're the first government that's going to run a regional transportation system."
We already do. Does GO not exist in this mans world? Also there would have been an easy way to solve this problem had the TTC not decided to use its silly track gauge for the subway.
We already do. Does GO not exist in this mans world? Also there would have been an easy way to solve this problem had the TTC not decided to use its silly track gauge for the subway.