Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Cobra]

Scarborough simply doesn't have the ridership to justify keeping it open later than it already is.

And Sheppard does? So trains for North Yorkers, good but Scarberians, bad...ok

 

[aquateam]

Since Line 2 is expected to be ATC equipped by 2030, then that would mean there would be at most 4 years of inefficient terminus management at STC.

ATC doesn't make all trains go to the end of the line. In fact, it'll do quite the opposite as turnarounds are easier (faster) with a branched terminus.

The main choke point, after station dwell, is turn-around time. The reason Chicago loop can get down to 45 second intervals (unscheduled but regularly happens) is because of branched service. TTC doesn't actually have multiple lines sharing a middle so they'll mimic it by staggering the turn-around locations.

According to InsideToronto:

ATC is a prerequisite for future subway expansion on the Yonge line, including the north extension into Richmond Hill. It is also required for Bloor-Danforth before the Scarborough subway extension is completed. The Toronto York Spadina Subway Extension (TYSSE) will be ATC-enabled when it opens.

Steve Munro also seems to believe that the SSE will only be run on ATC, which would make sense to avoid building two separate signalling systems just to decommission one shortly after.

The T1 subway fleet is due for replacement in the mid 2020s, but current plans show this happening substantially after the SSE opens with delivery of prototypes in 2024 and the remainder of the fleet from 2026-2030. This means that a large part of the BD fleet would not be able to operate on ATC, and therefore could not run beyond Kennedy Station.

So it isn't so much that ATC *requires* going all the way to the line, it's that non-ATC equipped trains cannot go past Kennedy.

Last train going eastbound at Victoria Park: 2:11am, all week

Last train going westbound at Islington: 2:14am, all week

The only reason the last train going eastbound at kennedy is at 1:31am IS because the Scarborough RT is not a real subway line. You can arrive at Kennedy station well past 2AM.

The last train on Montreal's downtown subways is 12:57 AM on Fridays so I guess they don't have a real subway.

 

[syn]

Maybe noone is using it because that 40 minute time difference matters a lot when you're coming back from downtown nightlife. You might not even catch the last train in time so it's just pointless to use the subway because it stops two-thirds of the way to your destination.

Really?

No one is using it at 11pm because...'clubbing'?

If you might not even catch the last train in time, then why would you worry about when the RT is done??

If you're downtown clubbing till 2am you aren't getting to St. George for the 1:52am final train eastbound. You aren't getting to Yonge by 1:54am either.

I can't believe this is a serious argument for keeping the RT open later lol.

Here's a thought - Scarborough clubbers can do what the rest of us have been doing for ages - take the Vomit Comet or grab a cab/UBER.

 

[Sakraycore]

The last train on Montreal's downtown subways is 12:57 AM on Fridays so I guess they don't have a real subway.

That's Montreal though. Maybe their nightlife ends earlier than Toronto so it's not as important.

If you're downtown clubbing till 2am you aren't getting to St. George for the 1:52am final train eastbound. You aren't getting to Yonge by 1:54am either.

Maybe for clubbing you'd want to stay until 2AM, but for strips clubs 11PM to 1AM is easily prime time. So you could catch the subway in-time but not the RT. Not to say that there is nothing else to do until 1AM except for strip clubs that's worthwhile in downtown Toronto.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Pro tip: if you’re leaving the club early enough to catch the subway, you’re leaving too early

 

[syn]

Pro tip: if you’re leaving the club early enough to catch the subway, you’re leaving too early

Maybe during the next election Tory and Ford can debate with other candidates over how many billion dollars must be spent to ensure clubbers from Scarborough have a more convenient trip home.

The tunnel is long and should be empty a lot of the time - maybe they can shut it down early on weekends and turn it into a club for Scarborough residents? "The Underground" has a nice ring to it.

Yet another reason why we can't save money and put it above ground.

Speaking of which, what are the odds it's entirely above ground, like it is between Victoria Park and Warden?

That seems to be an obvious way to keep costs down.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So while you’re complaining that the SRT shuts down too early, I’m in North York discovering that the subway closes at 1:15 am. Scarborough isn’t the only place suffering!

 

[OneCity]

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2017.GM23.16

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Project update in the TTC's CEO report. The Scarborough Subway will not meet it's target end date, and accordingly target end data has been pushed back by another six months, to Q2 2026. This is a delay of 2.5 years, compared to its original schedule. Furthermore, the TTC acknowledges that the Scarborough Subway is at risk of going over its $3.305 Billion budget.

 

[pstogios]

Project update in the TTC's CEO report. The Scarborough Subway will not meet it's target end date, and accordingly target end data has been pushed back by another six months, to Q2 2026. This is a delay of 2.5 years, compared to its original schedule. Furthermore, the TTC acknowledges that the Scarborough Subway is at risk of going over its $3.35 Billion budget.

View attachment 132148

Thanks for this TTM. But it’s not like the Subway Champions will care.

 

[steveintoronto]

Project update in the TTC's CEO report. The Scarborough Subway will not meet it's target end date, and accordingly target end data has been pushed back by another six months, to Q2 2026. This is a delay of 2.5 years, compared to its original schedule. Furthermore, the TTC acknowledges that the Scarborough Subway is at risk of going over its $3.35 Billion budget.

Reality has a way of interfering with fantasy.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Project update in the TTC's CEO report. The Scarborough Subway will not meet it's target end date, and accordingly target end data has been pushed back by another six months, to Q2 2026. This is a delay of 2.5 years, compared to its original schedule. Furthermore, the TTC acknowledges that the Scarborough Subway is at risk of going over its $3.35 Billion budget.

View attachment 132148

Mayor Tory and his allies have been working to suppress information regarding the Scarborough Subway cost overruns, so they wouldn't have to debate the cost issue until after the election. But with two more TTC CEO reports coming out between now and the election, it's likely that confirmation of cost overruns will come from the TTC before the election.

 

[OneCity]

Mayor Tory and his allies have been working to suppress information regarding the Scarborough Subway cost overruns, so they wouldn't have to debate the cost issue until after the election. But with two more TTC CEO reports coming out between now and the election, it's likely that confirmation of cost overruns will come from the TTC before the election.

Im not sure how much truth their is to your statement whatsoever but would agree Tory would see major political damage should some significant overrun occur.

If it is true and more than just an assumption lets get it over with so we can move on. The Province would step in immediately to upload and calm before the election, the usual local opposition would throw a massive transfer LRT tantrum that would only piss off the apathetic Scarborough voter to an even greater degree, and while not a popular opinion on this forum Ford easily stands the most to gain locally.

 

[picard102]

Mayor Tory and his allies have been working to suppress information regarding the Scarborough Subway cost overruns, so they wouldn't have to debate the cost issue until after the election.

Hide it from whom? Anyone who cares already knows, everyone else either doesn't care enough or just wants them to get on with it already.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Hide it from whom? Anyone who cares already knows, everyone else either doesn't care enough or just wants them to get on with it already.

The electorate during the municipal election. They presumably don't want the next election to turn into a public debate on whether or not the SSE is worth the cost overruns, and having to justify defending those overruns.