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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

The politicians who are pushing the SSE refused to acknowledge during the process that the cost of SSE was anything other than the tunneling and fitout costs for the extension.

Do you have proof that this lack of signal upgrade action is caused by the Politicians pushing for the SSE? They will either expedite the upgrade or retrofit the old system which seems likely given the time sensitive variables
 
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Do you have proof that this lack of signal upgrade action is caused by the Politicians pushing for the SSE? They will either expedite the upgrade or retrofit the old system which seems likely given the time sensitive variables
Which costs money. Which is not in the SSE budget envelope.
 
Have they been dragging their feet? Upgrading the signals on line 1 is proving to be a long, difficult process, and an expensive one at that. I don't think it unreasonable to focus on one line at a time. Plus, the Line 2 trains (which don't need replacement for another 10 years) can't even support ATC, so why rush? The SSE plan still isn't even finalized.

Yes, they will need new trains for the SSE. But the timeline more or less matches up so the SSE opens close-ish to the time the new trains need to come. Getting new trains a few years early isn't the worst thing in the world. So I don't think its fair to lump the cost of new trains in with the SSE because its something that needs to happen anyway. Same with ATC.
 
Except without the new signals, Council would probably have demanded the T1s get an SRT style refurb and carry on another 10 years. Remember, when SSE was first kicked around, the story was that Line 2 had more trains than needed, so service could be met from the existing fleet. Then the need for signals and consequent cost of retrofitting the T1s became known and the discussion switched to a new fleet.
 
So I don't think its fair to lump the cost of new trains in with the SSE because its something that needs to happen anyway. Same with ATC.

Agreed. I think the issue here is for the City to ensure it has everything lined up to meet the 1o year window and that way we can avoid delays or stop gap measures.
 
We have 10 years.

So, lets assume they get things going, 10 years of construction can not only build the SSE, but it can upgrade to ATO and build the new yard.

With Trudeau's infrastructure spending spree, The money could be there for these projects.

The real problem will be who build the new trains and are they delivered on time.
 
We have 10 years.
true but what are we doing with them as was said at the last TTC board meeting we should have ordered the replacements for the T1 trains weeks ago. It takes time to design a new transit vehicles from satch and put out tenders to companies. Especially if we are going to go with someone other then Bombardier then they will have to set up assembly lines and testing areas for use with TTC gauge as I don't see the TTC or city council wanting to put up the money to regauge the whole system just for a new set of vehicles.
 
true but what are we doing with them as was said at the last TTC board meeting we should have ordered the replacements for the T1 trains weeks ago. It takes time to design a new transit vehicles from satch and put out tenders to companies. Especially if we are going to go with someone other then Bombardier then they will have to set up assembly lines and testing areas for use with TTC gauge as I don't see the TTC or city council wanting to put up the money to regauge the whole system just for a new set of vehicles.

Our Toronto Rocket trainsets have been performing exceptionally well, so I expect that the TTC is likely to order another set of Toronto Rockets to replace the T1s and to provide a fleet for the Relief Line and Scarborough Subway. Not only would we be getting an excellent fleet of trains, but this should also be significantly quicker and cheaper than procuring a whole new model of train.

I know it's tempting to throw Bombarider under the bus, but we'd be foolish to deprive ourselves of such well performing vehicles out of spite for the company.
 
Our Toronto Rocket trainsets have been performing exceptionally well, so I expect that the TTC is likely to order another set of Toronto Rockets to replace the T1s and to provide a fleet for the Relief Line and Scarborough Subway. Not only would we be getting an excellent fleet of trains, but this would should also be significantly quicker and cheaper than procuring a whole new model of train.

I know it's tempting to throw Bombarider under the bus, but we'd be foolish to deprive ourselves of such well performing vehicles out of spite for the company.
Even if they do reorder them they would likely make some changes based on what has changed with technology since they were first ordered.
 
I'm a fan of consistency, plus the Rocket trains are pretty slick.

Gonna be a PR nightmare though, if they decide to go with Bombardier in the future.
 
I'm a fan of consistency, plus the Rocket trains are pretty slick.

Gonna be a PR nightmare though, if they decide to go with Bombardier in the future.
I think people want to make more of an issue about it then it really is. The Toronto Rockets were late in the beginning because of supply problems too but everyone still like them. Plus don't forget there are rumblings of an apparent merger of the rail divisions of Bombardier and another company with ta other company selling off to Bombardier. People also fort that the rail division of Bombardier is the most successful part of the company it's the aerospace section that is getting propped up by the government of Quebec and Canada as they are having a tough time competing with the other manufacturers, possibly because they only produce smaller planes.
 
Gonna be a PR nightmare though, if they decide to go with Bombardier in the future.
Not really. They just present a table showing how much 60 cars would cost by extending the current contract, and when they'll be delivered - compared to a couple of other more expensive, later, and potentially riskier options. Then they all nod and conclude that $350 million and 2021 is better than $550 million and 2023. And after that, it just writes itself.

You don't think they'd be so keen to do this study if they didn't have the answer already.
 
I'm a fan of consistency, plus the Rocket trains are pretty slick.

Gonna be a PR nightmare though, if they decide to go with Bombardier in the future.

It would be a controversy for all of 48 hours. The public has the memory of a goldfish.

Now if we order more TRs from Bombardier and they screw that up anywhere near as bad as the streetcar order, then heads will be rolling.

Bombardier has a solid track record producing the Toronto Rockets. If there were an analysis of risks associated with resuming production of the TRs compared to procuring vehicles from a different manufacturer, I'd bet that resuming production of the TRs would be the safest option.
 
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