Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[ssiguy2]

If Toronto wants to convert the SRT to LRT and waste time and money for no new service then that's fine.

What I have always wondered and have yet to get an answer to is why it is going to take 4 years and $2 billion to do it?

No environmental reviews needed, only station modifications but not any new ones needed except Kennedy, no land aquisition required, no underground infrastructure to move, no new bus bays or park n rides..............just electrical poles and new track and that's it. How can that possibly cost {except Kennedy station} more than $200 million and take more than 4 months to do?
All that and for no new service. The idea of propriatary technology is absurd when when several other cities use the technology and it is made by Bombardier and when was the last time Toronto bought any rail equipment from any manufacturer except Bombardier? It goes thru the motions of a tender process but everyone {including the competition} knows who will get the contract.

This is Miller's LRT wet dreams gone mad. Miller was bound and determined to make Toronto an LRT city regardless of whether it was the right choice or not. LRT in many cases is a good choice but Miller made it the only choice regardless of the fact that it may cost several times more than a BRT ROW and be no faster and have less flexibility.

If you want LRT then fine but I still would like an answer to my questions............why such a huge cost and why so much time to do it?

 

[kEiThZ]

@ssiguy2

I don't get why people keep saying it's not new service. Ride the crowded and unreliable SRT and then tell me if a subway extension won't feel like new service.

And the expense comees from the fact that a subway requires a whole new alignment.

 

[BurlOak]

If Toronto wants to convert the SRT to LRT and waste time and money for no new service then that's fine.

What I have always wondered and have yet to get an answer to is why it is going to take 4 years and $2 billion to do it?

No environmental reviews needed, only station modifications but not any new ones needed except Kennedy, no land aquisition required, no underground infrastructure to move, no new bus bays or park n rides..............just electrical poles and new track and that's it. How can that possibly cost {except Kennedy station} more than $200 million and take more than 4 months to do?
All that and for no new service. The idea of propriatary technology is absurd when when several other cities use the technology and it is made by Bombardier and when was the last time Toronto bought any rail equipment from any manufacturer except Bombardier? It goes thru the motions of a tender process but everyone {including the competition} knows who will get the contract.

This is Miller's LRT wet dreams gone mad. Miller was bound and determined to make Toronto an LRT city regardless of whether it was the right choice or not. LRT in many cases is a good choice but Miller made it the only choice regardless of the fact that it may cost several times more than a BRT ROW and be no faster and have less flexibility.

If you want LRT then fine but I still would like an answer to my questions............why such a huge cost and why so much time to do it?

To be fair, the $2B (or $1.8B) includes the extension to Malvern (actually only Sheppard and McCowan) - a 4km extension. So it is 6km of existing rail being converted and 4km of extension. I thought I heard that the conversion was about $100M /km and the extension is about $300M / km. Both of these numbers do look very high.

They seem to be undecided whether the shutdown would be 3 to 4 years. It does indeed seem rather high and that is maybe the biggest reason so many Councillors and MPP's are getting cold feet about supporting it (the retention of the forced transfer at Kennedy being the other big reason).

 

[GenerationW]

Exactly. Go to McCown Steeles and stop the games.

Steeles is not even being considered, and it'll be tricky enough for Council to scrap the LRT and sign on to a subway extension to Sheppard.

Let York Region worry about it if they ever want to take B-D to Steeles and beyond.

They seem to be undecided whether the shutdown would be 3 to 4 years.

Or five.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Steeles is not even being considered, and it'll be tricky enough for Council to scrap the LRT and sign on to a subway extension to Sheppard.

Let York Region worry about it if they ever want to take B-D to Steeles and beyond.

Or five.

It should be. No more bandaids. Going to sheppard does not change anything and serves less people, but Scarborough wants a subway so I digress.

 

[Forgotten]

We already know the the SRT is only carrying a fraction of riders today because it lacks equipment.

Having the subway going to Steeles by STC will handle the pent-up demand for better transit in Scarborough now and the future.

Even if subway or LRT get to STC, the poor folks in Malvern are still without rapid transit that was promise to them in the 80's.

In fact, I saw the subway going Hwy 7 far back as 2006.

You are moving not loosing any of the existing stations by building the subway extension up Markham Rd to STC and then swing it over to McCowan to Steeles, with provision to go north to Hwy 7 at a future date.

By using the existing corridor of the SRT for LRT, you can use it as branch lines with various lines splitting off at various location. It opens up a whole range of new markets to service as well better service than what there is today.

I don't trust Metrolinx numbers and they are playing their famous games without a lack of vision for Scarborough.

The current conversion plan brings it pretty close to Malvern and it would just be a short tunnel to bring it north to the centre. Possibly within the envelope of an extra billion and then some. Isn't there already an EA done on this?

It seems like you are saying that both the subway extension should be built AND SRT conversion and extension. Is this correct? You want the subway to go east to the GO station and that both options should be done?

Exactly. Go to McCown Steeles and stop the games.

If Toronto wants to convert the SRT to LRT and waste time and money for no new service then that's fine.

I don't get why people keep saying it's not new service. Ride the crowded and unreliable SRT and then tell me if a subway extension won't feel like new service.

And the expense comees from the fact that a subway requires a whole new alignment.

What on earth are you people talking about? It sounds like you are just hearing what you want to hear. From reading drum's post it sounds like he thinks it is a good idea to extend the subway east AND convert and extend the SRT. Especially the first guy... holy. Drum isn't even talking about the current proposal, he's talking about going east all the way to Markham before looping back west towards STC. For the last guy I can guarantee to you that people living near the current line that you and others that are thinking of abandoning will not think it is new service to them. Because a conversion reduces crowding that meets your criteria for new service no???

 

[BurlOak]

It seems like you are saying that both the subway extension should be built AND SRT conversion and extension. Is this correct? You want the subway to go east to the GO station and that both options should be done?

I had some trouble following as well. These are my best guesses (blue and green) as to what was proposed.

I Prefer the LRT route to Malvern and maybe eventually go north of Steeles from there.

 

[drum118]

I screw up on my routing after STC and it should been Markham Rd, not McCowan.

This will mostly follow the plan SRT plan of the 80's as well what has been proposed for the LRT.

By taking the line to Steeles is a push over the plan Sheppard current plan location, but it helps Malvern. North of Steeles there this thing being built call Downtown Markham.

As someone who has walked and photograph almost every inch from McCowan Yard to Malvern mall, exportation is required south of Hwy 401 for the line. The ROW is in place north of the 401, but most people who backyard is next to it don't know this at all. The people I spoke to in 2008 where totally unaware that this green belt was for transit.

Where the SRT extension meets Sheppard in the ROW, there is a culture centre next to it. The approved EA calls for a tunnel to go under Sheppard as well connect to the Sheppard LRT line to deal with the noise of cars turning or going by the culture centre. The elevated die and I never support it at this location. Between the culture centre and the school on the north side, too noisy for the area.

As for the map above, totally lost as it not even close to what being call for.

As to why the long conversion time and $2B for the current SRT Conversion to LRT, there is this thing call tunnel at Ellesmere that has to be rebuilt 100% as well relocation's of the existing station if it stays. It should be removed from the system. All existing stations have to be rebuilt as well the track system since they fail to meet the standards for LRT's. Even Mark 2 or 3 cars can't use this lines as is.

Here are the links to the SRT ROW videos shot in 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesFxIZmtfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P6EW0E1eM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-igCSC7IgZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW2H9wJZRVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dxhBtDI8xs

At Sheppard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trZ5RR27a9w

Run from STC to Kennedy in 2008. Time to reshoot it and hope no ones gets in the way like this one.
[video=youtube;P6d1cw43csg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6d1cw43csg[/video]

 

[ssiguy2]

Heads would roll in Vancouver if the SkyTrain went that slow. It not only travels very slow along the route but entering and leaving the station is MUCH slower. I understand much of that has to do to the fact that the TTC uses manual control eventhough the system was built as an automated system. That is also what led to a far faster breakdown of the brakes as the drivers were applying them harder than should be. That also led to a faster wearing of the tracks.

BTW, Translink is about to begin a total replacement of all the original EXPO line SkyTrain track................it's being done overnight on weekends with only late night service effected.

 

[smallspy]

By taking the line to Steeles is a push over the plan Sheppard current plan location, but it helps Malvern. North of Steeles there this thing being built call Downtown Markham.

If a subway is built, it will likely never, ever make it to Steeles in any of our lifetimes. There will never be the density, employment or ridership to justify it.

As to why the long conversion time and $2B for the current SRT Conversion to LRT, there is this thing call tunnel at Ellesmere that has to be rebuilt 100% as well relocation's of the existing station if it stays. It should be removed from the system. All existing stations have to be rebuilt as well the track system since they fail to meet the standards for LRT's. Even Mark 2 or 3 cars can't use this lines as is.

The conversion is not costing $1.8bil. That dollar figure involves the conversion AND extending the line to Sheppard via Centennial College, AND paying for the share of the new maintenance facility on Sheppard East, AND for the vehicles that will run on the line. The conversion of the line by itself is a considerably smaller figure.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The conlins yard costs something like $300 million dollars alone. (keep in mind that it will be the largest train yard in the city, at least for public transit and scaled by the amount of trains stored) It has to hold trains for both the Sheppard line, the SRT, and even some for the ECLRT. Especially considering that the SRT will be the Busiest line in the LRT system, it means a large portion of the 182 trains they need for the entire system.

 

[drum118]

If a subway is built, it will likely never, ever make it to Steeles in any of our lifetimes. There will never be the density, employment or ridership to justify it.



The conversion is not costing $1.8bil. That dollar figure involves the conversion AND extending the line to Sheppard via Centennial College, AND paying for the share of the new maintenance facility on Sheppard East, AND for the vehicles that will run on the line. The conversion of the line by itself is a considerably smaller figure.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Going to Steeles is like most things in this city that will no be seen by us in our life time since the city doesn't want to pay for it and lack the vision. Unlike other cities, our Councillors don't want expensive items added while on councils or their watch. I always saw Phase I going to Sheppard with Phase II to Steeles and Phase III to Hwy 7.

Please tell us the cost to convert the SRT to LRT and explain the timeline to do the work to STC let alone taking the line east?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If a subway is built, it will likely never, ever make it to Steeles in any of our lifetimes. There will never be the density, employment or ridership to justify it.

Don't count on it. Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Difference is that there will never be some politicians wet dream at steeles and McCowen like there is in vaughan.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Difference is that there will never be some politicians wet dream at steeles and McCowen like there is in vaughan.

Finch/McCowan is more then enough. If the Spadina line only went to Jane Finch then this would not even be a topic of convo.