Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

DRL is best for Scarborough. Residents of Scarborough will be using the DRL, more so than they would the Scarborough subway.

Funny that.

Yes and by that logic the SSE will be best for Pickering? Having a subway connection to Scarborough Centre is very important for the future of Scarborough and shouldn't be an either-or with the DRL or an improved local network and the separate benefits they provide. But nice try

Funny the things said to grab the Scarborough funding.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Yes and by that logic the SSE will be best for Pickering? Having a subway connection to Scarborough Centre is very important for the future of Scarborough and shouldn't be an either-or with the DRL or an improved local network and the separate benefits they provide. But nice try

Funny the things said to grab the Scarborough funding.

Do you not get that every rider using the SSE will be transferring onto the DRL?

Do yo not get that without the DRL, every SSE rider will be stuck using Bloor-Yonge?

Any actual rider of the SSE are the victims of this gross misallocation of funds away from the DRL.

 

[BurlOak]

DRL is best for Scarborough. Residents of Scarborough will be using the DRL, more so than they would the Scarborough subway.

Funny that.

This is true.

Too bad the politicians and experts alike lost credibility by continually pushing the transfer LRT solution.

We continue to live the effects of the decision to defeat Ford at all costs back in 2012, instead of finding a proper solution then.

 

[BurlOak]

Do you not get that every rider using the SSE will be transferring onto the DRL?

Do yo not get that without the DRL, every SSE rider will be stuck using Bloor-Yonge?

Any actual rider of the SSE are the victims of this gross misallocation of funds away from the DRL.

The exact same logic applies if the transfer LRT was build. Just then Scarborough residents would have to make an extra transfers.

If the continuous SRT-ECLRT had been agreed on in 2012, all focus now would be on DRL. It was the decisions of 2012 (by Councillors, Scarborough Liberal MPP's, MTO Minister) that put the DRL down the priority list.

Anyone (now or in the past 3 years) looking to find an alternate, transfer-free solution to serve STC, is actually helping the cause of the DRL. Sadly, this list of people is very small.

 

[syn]

The exact same logic applies if the transfer LRT was build. Just then Scarborough residents would have to make an extra transfers.

If the continuous SRT-ECLRT had been agreed on in 2012, all focus now would be on DRL. It was the decisions of 2012 (by Councillors, Scarborough Liberal MPP's, MTO Minister) that put the DRL down the priority list.

Anyone (now or in the past 3 years) looking to find an alternate, transfer-free solution to serve STC, is actually helping the cause of the DRL. Sadly, this list of people is very small.

No, they'd have to make an acceptable transfer based on a transit solution that's most effective for the area they live in, providing the best coverage at the most reasonable cost.

If people can get off the subway at Spadina and transfer to a streetcar, I'm pretty sure Scarborough residents can manage getting off an LRT and on to the subway.

 

[Hopkins123]

Can we not live in a world where both the SSE and DRL can be built consecutively without what seems to boil down to little more than penis envy over which subway is of bigger importance due to ridership projections tinkered at in a lab?

And I don't buy the "governments are broke" excuse. They seem to find money for everything else. It's more a case of "governments are incompetent and don't want to lose upcoming elections by annoying voting blocs so they initiate very little at a time" syndrome.

 

[syn]

Yes and by that logic the SSE will be best for Pickering? Having a subway connection to Scarborough Centre is very important for the future of Scarborough and shouldn't be an either-or with the DRL or an improved local network and the separate benefits they provide. But nice try

Funny the things said to grab the Scarborough funding.

No, not by that logic.

Pickering is not part of Toronto.

 

[OneCity]

No, they'd have to make an acceptable transfer based on a transit solution that's most effective for the area they live in, providing the best coverage at the most reasonable cost.

If people can get off the subway at Spadina and transfer to a streetcar, I'm pretty sure Scarborough residents can manage getting off an LRT and on to the subway.

It's the location of the transfer. Not the transfer itself. Would.have been a much more acceptable solution to put the subway on the RT corridor not LRT.

 

[OneCity]

No, not by that logic.

Pickering is not part of Toronto.

That's not my logic just a comparable to the argument made. And you're right Scarborough is in Toronto and should have its Core connected to Toronto's main infrastructure and not seperated one stop before.

 

[syn]

That's not my logic just a comparable to the argument made. And you're right Scarborough is in Toronto and should have its Core connected to Toronto's main infrastructure and not seperated one stop before.

It's not comparable though. Residents of Scarborough using the DRL isn't the same as residents of Pickering, etc. using the SSE extension.

The point he was making is that the DRL is of tremendous benefit to everyone, and desperately needed. The one stop extension is a vanity project, without the density to justify it.

Should residents on St. Clair and Spadina have an extension too? They are residents of Toronto and should be connected to Toronto's main infrastructure.

There's no difference between me getting off at Yonge and heading north to Yonge and Eglinton or getting off at Kennedy and heading north on an RT/LRT.

 

[OneCity]

It's not comparable though. Residents of Scarborough using the DRL isn't the same as residents of Pickering, etc. using the SSE extension.

The point he was making is that the DRL is of tremendous benefit to everyone, and desperately needed. The one stop extension is a vanity project, without the density to justify it.

Should residents on St. Clair and Spadina have an extension too? They are residents of Toronto and should be connected to Toronto's main infrastructure.

There's no difference between me getting of at Yonge and heading north to Yonge and Eglinton or getting off at Kennedy and heading north on an RT/LRT.

Its a comparable, not exactly the same but both are equally absurd arguments since his angle was to take Scarborough funding to build some DRL. You call it vanity but it didn't have to be. The LRT could have been connected to Eglinton, or the opposition could have been advocated heavily for subway on the RT corridor which would have now cost very similar. SCC needs to be connected and the transfer is dumb so its not vanity whatsoever.. Other options were available but opponents went all-in on Transfer City.

No one is arguing the DRL here, I hope its funded soon so this rhetoric of to throw ill placed transfers in Scarborough comes to an end. I dont like his subway, but the one thing I give Tory a ton of credit for is recognizing the need to build the DRL along with the SSE so we can move forward as a City

 

[syn]

Its a comparable, not exactly the same but both are equally absurd arguments since his angle was to take Scarborough funding to build some DRL. You call it vanity but it didn't have to be. The LRT could have been connected to Eglinton, or the opposition could have been advocated heavily for subway on the RT corridor which would have now cost very similar. SCC needs to be connected and the transfer is dumb so its not vanity whatsoever.. Other options were available but opponents went all-in on Transfer City.

No one is arguing the DRL here, I hope its funded soon so this rhetoric of to throw ill placed transfers in Scarborough comes to an end. I dont like his subway, but the one thing I give Tory a ton of credit for is recognizing the need to build the DRL along with the SSE so we can move forward as a City

It's not comparable at all.

There is nothing ill placed about the Kennedy transfer - just like there's nothing ill placed about the Spadina Streetcar transfer or the Yonge-Bloor/Yonge transfer.

Why is the DRL a necessity? The Yonge Line is over capacity. That effects everyone in Toronto. It's not about what's deserved based on perception - it's about proper infrastructure based on facts and legitimate needs.

You could simply upgrade the current RT and things would be fine in Scarborough, and I'd argue better for those who use stations like Lawrence on the current RT.

 

[OneCity]

It's not comparable at all.

There is nothing ill placed about the Kennedy transfer - just like there's nothing ill placed about the Spadina Streetcar transfer or the Yonge-Bloor/Yonge transfer.

Why is the DRL a necessity? The Yonge Line is over capacity. That effects everyone in Toronto. It's not about what's deserved based on perception - it's about proper infrastructure based on facts and legitimate needs.

You could simply upgrade the current RT and things would be fine in Scarborough, and I'd argue better for those who use stations like Lawrence on the current RT.

When did I argue the DRL benefits? You are barking to the wrong people thinking it will help the DRL cause and even if we build the SLRT you are not much closer to the DRL

You don't care about connection to SCC and no point arguing this further as it's all been said. I can respect your opinion here and just not agree whatsoever. But the desire to take Scarborough capital to build a slice of DRL is not only unrealistic, it that type of division that has taken the focus off of funding it and helping to divide the City Politically. Let's try to build together.

 

[BurlOak]

Its a comparable, not exactly the same but both are equally absurd arguments since his angle was to take Scarborough funding to build some DRL. You call it vanity but it didn't have to be. The LRT could have been connected to Eglinton, or the opposition could have been advocated heavily for subway on the RT corridor which would have now cost very similar. SCC needs to be connected and the transfer is dumb so its not vanity whatsoever.. Other options were available but opponents went all-in on Transfer City.

No one is arguing the DRL here, I hope its funded soon so this rhetoric of to throw ill placed transfers in Scarborough comes to an end. I dont like his subway, but the one thing I give Tory a ton of credit for is recognizing the need to build the DRL along with the SSE so we can move forward as a City

Normally, I would say its the "subway" peoples job to come up with alternatives, but look at the history.

1. Was SRT continuous with an elevated ECLRT considered. I would say that it was and it was shut down from the top. See "Elevated transit among Metrolinx’s alternatives" and note how Ford, or any other residents, did not appear to oppose the elevated option, but the statements by McQuaig and Soberman sounded like they were opposed.
2. Next considered was SRT continous with an underground ECLRT. Again, this was supported by Ford and a great many residents, but was again shot down from the top - Councillors and Liberal MPP's.
3. Next was a subway in the SRT corridor, which again was voted down by Council.
4. Finally, they investigated about 10 routes to get to STC before settling on the McCowan route.

In each of these cases, the alternative was always the transfer LRT. Thus, if I were a supporter of a continuous connection to STC, I would not give up on the current subway because it appears that so many other options were put forth and the transfer LRT people did not support a single 1. Now that the 1 stop subway has been accepted, I would not accept anyone trying to change it.

The only caveat would be if the opposition to the 1 stop subway would affirm that a transfer free connection must be provided to STC, and then suggest some sober second thought to determine if the current subway plan is best able to produce this.

 

[micheal_can]

LRT, Subway... Yes.

Is there anyone who does not see that both, a multi extension of the Sheppard and Bloor lines to STC and LRT/streetcars from Eglinton, and other places are all needed?

The real question is - what order do we build them in?