Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[amnesiajune]

For the record, I also don't support DRL as a TTC item. I support doing it as part of GO Transit RER.

Eh. RER has the problem of being too far east to properly pick up all the demand. It also has a relatively low capacity - even at one train every 6 minutes it can only pick up around 20,000 pphpd (based on current Go Train capacity).

What I'd like to see studied is the possibility of an Eglinton-style solution - street-level LRT on Don Mills and Overlea, and underground south of the DVP.

 

[steveintoronto]

Eh. RER has the problem of being too far east to properly pick up all the demand. It also has a relatively low capacity - even at one train every 6 minutes it can only pick up around 20,000 pphpd (based on current Go Train capacity).

You missed my stating "if you're going to bore a tunnel". And I take your capacity claims for frequent EMU to task. I suggest you read the basis for Crosstown and the throughput. "Too far east"? The DRL alignment is not cut in stone yet. And a Crosstown type solution could stone two birds with one kill, running under Queen and west to intersect both the K/W and L-W alignments and relieving Union's saturated capacity, while serving different catchment areas to the present GO routes. The TTC would become a feeder, not a spine. Crossrail, btw, even though projected to run every four minutes, is capable of 2.5 minute headways.

Once you examine *Scarborough as a Whole* instead of this insufferable and unjustified fixation with SCC, a Crossrail solution becomes far more viable. Do Scarberians wish to get "downtown" or not? And rapidly?

 

[Johnny Au]

I had second thought. The above requires more difficult staging, just to reduce the centreline shift of McCowan.

• I think its better to build a brand "new high level bridge" beside (west of) the existing one. All traffic goes onto this new bridge.
• To reduce the shift in McCowan alignment, cut off the existing west sidewalk and close it during construction. Then build the new bridge without the east cantilever overhang in the construction stage. Traffic would be shifted west, with no bike lanes or east sidewalk during construction.
• Traffic coming out of Benleigh would be required to go north only. When they look out, they would be looking at a ~3m retaining wall, so they couldn't make it south if they tried. The existing bridge, which is 60 years old, would be removed. Those coming southbound on McCowan would also not be able to turn onto Benleigh.
• (The above means no access to Benleigh from McCowan, only egress. Likely a 1 lane bridge would be kept that acts as an exit ramp from McCowan NB to Benleigh).
• The centre lane (more of a gore) is needed on the bridge because immediately south of the bridge there is a left turn lane.
• I figure the post-tensioned concrete bridge is about 50m span. It also requires retaining walls on either end being a couple of hundred metres long (a bit longer where it curve into the hospital).
• The bridge is far from efficient (a 50m span bridge would likely only be 2.0m deep, and not 5.0m), so I will assume $20k/m2 (normal bridge is about $5k). This is maybe a $25M bridge, along with $10M for retaining walls.

View attachment 102954

When I looked at the diagram, I thought that there would be a reversible centre lane just like Jarvis St.

 

[BurlOak]

When I looked at the diagram, I thought that there would be a reversible centre lane just like Jarvis St.

Ya, I didn't label it right. The existing bridge is 5 lanes, so I repeated that - but the entire centre lane is just a median area due to the left turn lane to the hospital immediately south of the bridge.

 

[Palma]

Holy revisionist history. The missing stops has nothing to do with SmartTrack. Prior to the cost overruns, this was going to be a three-stop extension, with or without SmartTrack. The only reason two of the three stops were removed was because the extension blew its original funding envelope. If not for the cost overruns, the thing would still have three stops.

And yes, the fault for this lies squarely with Scarborough and Scarborough politicians. Nobody is forcing them to adovocate so fiercely for a flawed one-stop extension.

except they feel it will get them re-elected/I hope both its the NDP that gets in, in those ridings in scarborough

 

[JoEddie7677]

except they feel it will get them re-elected/I hope both its the NDP that gets in, in those ridings in scarborough

you do know that Neethan Shan, the recently elected council member for Scarborough-Rouge River, was backed by the NDP and has worked for them before. You can see him standing behind Tory in all those scarborough subway press conferences. The guy also made that idiot comment about how this would save people an hour. I don't think you can trust any political party in Ontario to make a sensible decision on this issue. They all seem willing to pander to this nonsense.

 

[Hopkins123]

The only politicians that truly can be trusted to do right by regular transit users, are politicians that actually use transit on a regular basis.

I'm getting a "Let them eat cake!" vibe from all parties involved, which is worrisome.

 

[Kitsune]

.. did they ever consider rebuilding Kennedy station to properly line up the subway to use the SRT alignment ?

 

[steveintoronto]

The only politicians that truly can be trusted to do right by regular transit users, are politicians that actually use transit on a regular basis.

I'm getting a "Let them eat cake!" vibe from all parties involved, which is worrisome.

And evidently the ones screaming the loudest now for "subway, not LRT" can't get their story straight:

 

[JoEddie7677]

.. did they ever consider rebuilding Kennedy station to properly line up the subway to use the SRT alignment ?

This was basically what former Ontario Transportation Minister Glen Murray proposed but I think it was rejected because it would involve a significant disruption to Kennedy Station and the station would also have to be redesigned for the Crosstown. It seems the city is completely avoiding using this alignment because it would involve shutting down the SRT and having people use buses to get from Kennedy to STC.

 

[JoEddie7677]

And evidently the ones screaming the loudest now for "subway, not LRT" can't get their story straight:

This is Jennifer Keesmat arguing for the LRT in 2013

 

[OneCity]

The only politicians that truly can be trusted to do right by regular transit users, are politicians that actually use transit on a regular basis.

I'm getting a "Let them eat cake!" vibe from all parties involved, which is worrisome.

So those that were blessed with subways in their ridings now have trusting Politicians.

 

[OneCity]

This was basically what former Ontario Transportation Minister Glen Murray proposed but I think it was rejected because it would involve a significant disruption to Kennedy Station and the station would also have to be redesigned for the Crosstown. It seems the city is completely avoiding using this alignment because it would involve shutting down the SRT and having people use buses to get from Kennedy to STC.

None of the challenges are game breakers and certainly when we are looking at deep tunneling. They are avoiding the RT these day because of Smarttrack. It would overlap and John's pet project would be seen as completely unnecessary. That's the real waste here.

 

[salsa]

The only politicians that truly can be trusted to do right by regular transit users, are politicians that actually use transit on a regular basis.

So politicians like Karen Stintz? Josh Colle? Or even John Tory, who takes the subway to work? I don't think so. Using the TTC has not stopped them from being colossal idiots who have undermined transit in this city, who should have no business on the TTC board.

So those that were blessed with subways in their ridings now have trusting Politicians.

The correct answer is: no politicians should be in charge of transit. Frankly they can all just step aside. They've done enough.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Ben Spurr@BenSpurr
1 hour ago
.@reggcohn predicts that the Scarborough subway extension will be stopped after 2018 provincial and city elections. https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...nd-the-scarborough-subways-dead-end-cohn.html

The timeline for this turnaround is far off in the future: Not until after the next provincial and municipal elections — with the political risk safely behind them — will we see the premier and mayor of the day come to their senses and reverse course.

Construction doesn't look to be starting until at least 2019. It seems possible that we will see a reelected John Tory bow his head in shame and announce he no longer supports the project after yet another cost increase.

Tory doesn't appear to have aspirations in municipal politics beyond a second term, so what would motivate him to make such a drastic course correction? Perhaps he doesn't want to be remembered as a mayor who made bold transit promises ($7 Billion, 22-station SmartTrack), while delivering only a one-stop, $3.5 Billion subway extension. That will form his legacy more than anything he's done in office. More pragmatically, perhaps he has political aspirations at higher levels of government. This $3.5 Billion, one-stop extension will be a really easy target for future political opponents.