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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

M II A II R II K said:
Since no tracks have been laid yet perhaps it's not too late to have Innovia trains on the Crosstown and merge it with the SRT, they can also put those trains on Sheppard and extend that too.
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That is something I would truley enjoy but it wont happen, not on Eglinton at least. It would require another EA as it would have to be elevated on the east end.

However its still possible for Sheppard.

It would be great for the SRT to fork off at Scarborough Centre and go west on Sheppard, then replace the subway in the tunnel, and then re-appear to continue along the Finch Hydro corridor and then onto Finch and terminate at Humber.
 
BurlOak said:
You can give the Provincial Liberals some credit too.
  • They helped come up with the merged plan.
  • They studied it and found it the best (June 2012 Metrolinx report).
  • They hid report from Council for 16 months, allowing Council to make decisions without the available info.
  • They too abandoned the merged plan since the opportunity arose to defeat Ford.
  • They worked in the background to temporarily bring back LRT, with real goal of being "subway champion" to win a by-election.
  • They too get credit for this boondoggle.
Click to expand...

I'm fully aware how messed up they've been in Toronto Transit

Toronto’s transit remains at the mercy of Queen’s Park’s whims
http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...it-remains-at-the-mercy-of-queens-parks-whims

  • Nothing happens in Scarborough if provincial politicians decide they don’t want it to. And their collective record on this file is if anything more abominable than city councillors’.
 
Cobra said:
LRT is just AS IDIOTIC as subway. True answer is Skytrain with MkIII trains merged to Eglinton. But hey, Council was too busy getting back at Rob Ford than seeing the bigger picture
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Skytrain has to be grade separated. So while it's probably possible to bend the SRT alignment onto Eglinton, it then has to be g/sep over or under Eglinton all the way to Brentcliffe.
 
dowlingm said:
Skytrain has to be grade separated. So while it's probably possible to bend the SRT alignment onto Eglinton, it then has to be g/sep over or under Eglinton all the way to Brentcliffe.
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It would have been cheaper than the current plan to
  • fix the current SRT rails and equipment
  • buy MkIII trains
  • Have the SRT end at subway level at Kennedy Station (Like Don Mills Station transfer between LRT and Subway)
  • Have the curved path between Kennedy and the SRT alignment be underground
  • Run the whole thing at grade
  • Triton Bus terminal is actually a good idea
  • Have the SRT go below ground under the STC district to support city planning vision for the district
  • Have the SRT go above ground past the STC district to go to Centennial then to Malvern via Sheppard Avenue East.
So:
  1. Kennedy Station, underground with easy transfer with subway
  2. Kennedy to SRT path: Underground via curve to accommodate MK.III Trains
  3. SRT path to STC new district: above ground
  4. STC District: Underground
  5. Past STC district to Malvern: old EA as planned with mix elevated and underground
 
It would still be cheaper to build an elevated SkyTrain down Eglinton to the tunnel than a $3.5 billion subway and still building th at-grade LRT along Eglinton.

This was the original proposal until Miller got his greasy hands on the file. He wanted LRT because it requires labour and hence union votes. SkyTrain would be the fastest, highest capacity, most reliable, and most efficient to run to say nothing of the fact that the maintenance & garage facilities are already built.

The Star has done as much damage as Miller did backing LRT and not the best and most affordable option, SkyTrain.
 
ssiguy2 said:
It would still be cheaper to build an elevated SkyTrain down Eglinton to the tunnel than a $3.5 billion subway and still building th at-grade LRT along Eglinton.

This was the original proposal until Miller got his greasy hands on the file.
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I'm going to stop here and question this point. Whose "original proposal" was this (Crosstown as SRT and elevated), when was it proposed, and please cite sources.
 
dowlingm said:
I'm going to stop here and question this point. Whose "original proposal" was this (Crosstown as SRT and elevated), when was it proposed, and please cite sources.
Click to expand...

No one
  1. TTC wanted to refurbish the SRT and buy MK III trains
  2. Miller wanted to rebuild the SRT to put LRT instead
  3. Ford wanted to bury the crosstown underground and merge it with the SRT using LRT trains
  4. Council killed it and went back to Miller LRT
  5. Ford campaign on "Subways, subways, subways"
Neptis was the closest to what we are talking about. They came out with a report on the big move that was very critical of Transit City:
  • They found that the ridership of Eglinton was underestimate to fit LRT. Skytrain was the better option in terms of cost-value and could have accommodated the true ridership potential of the corridor
  • SRT should have been Skytrain
 
M II A II R II K said:
Since no tracks have been laid yet perhaps it's not too late to have Innovia trains on the Crosstown and merge it with the SRT, they can also put those trains on Sheppard and extend that too.
Click to expand...
I got to wonder how much extra it would cost to grade-separate Eglinton in Scarborough.

We got 4 TBMs not really doing anything at the moment.
 
Cobra said:
Neptis was the closest to what we are talking about. They came out with a report on the big move that was very critical of Transit City:
  • They found that the ridership of Eglinton was underestimate to fit LRT. Skytrain was the better option in terms of cost-value and could have accommodated the true ridership potential of the corridor
  • SRT should have been Skytrain
Click to expand...
Neptis report should be heavily criticized still.

Their belief of the Eglinton corridor was for people to bypass all destinations along the corridor on their way to their destination. It would work, but totally fails from a city-building perspective.

As for Eglinton ridership, I am betting it is underestimated. But underground LRT can handle upwards of 20,000pphd.
 
WislaHD said:
Neptis report should be heavily criticized still.

Their belief of the Eglinton corridor was for people to bypass all destinations along the corridor on their way to their destination. It would work, but totally fails from a city-building perspective.

As for Eglinton ridership, I am betting it is underestimated. But underground LRT can handle upwards of 20,000pphd.
Click to expand...
The stations they wanted to remove such as avenue was a dumb idea but Skytrain was still the better option for Eglinton especially in the scope that in the long term, it will go from the airport to Kennedy. As for the underground section of it, I don't like how the line creates a 2 tier system/service on the same line. The at grade section will never match the speed and reliability than it's underground counterpart. I hope Metrolinx/city works to grade separate intersections like they seem to want to do on Crosstown West.
 
Cobra said:
The stations they wanted to remove such as avenue was a dumb idea but Skytrain was still the better option for Eglinton especially in the scope that in the long term, it will go from the airport to Kennedy. As for the underground section of it, I don't like how the line creates a 2 tier system/service on the same line. The at grade section will never match the speed and reliability than it's underground counterpart. I hope Metrolinx/city works to grade separate intersections like they seem to want to do on Crosstown West.
Click to expand...

The major ones are Don Mills and Kennedy which will be grade-separated. Victoria Park's road configuration is going to be problematic. I would start there. (But really, grade-seperating the entire thing shouldn't be a pie-in-the-sky idea. I thought we were planning on turning the Golden Mile into a downtown-like area?)

But we are talking about the same agency that decided on the Leslie intersection and in short-turning trains at Laird rather than Don Mills, where an interchange with the DRL was plausible.
 
Cobra said:
No one
  1. TTC wanted to refurbish the SRT and buy MK III trains
  2. Miller wanted to rebuild the SRT to put LRT instead
  3. Ford wanted to bury the crosstown underground and merge it with the SRT using LRT trains
  4. Council killed it and went back to Miller LRT
  5. Ford campaign on "Subways, subways, subways.
Click to expand...
It was Mitzi Hunter and the Provincial Liberals that campaigned on subways, subways, subways.

Don't you remember that in conjunction with your #4, Council proudly said they took the transit file away from Ford.
 
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