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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

nfitz said:
Given that STC has seen virtually no development in the last decade, despite the restriction - at this point, the restrictions are only holding Scarborough back, by not developing the obvious node at Kennedy/Eglinton.
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Sorry what's obvious is we have a disjointed, segregated line into Scarborugh Centre. What's also obvious is there has been major confusion in what level of investment, connection and infrastructure type which will replace this POS. Your "obvious" statement is baseless for geographic and political reasons.

As mentioned the RT is a complete POS and not a selling feature but a seamless connected subway is. Its better that SCC has slowed on development so the quality will be far higher when it resumes.
 
OneCity said:
Sorry what's obvious is we have a disjointed, segregated line into Scarborugh Centre. What's also obvious is there has been major confusion in what level of investment will replace this POS. Your "obvious" statement is baseless geographically and politically.

As mentioned the RT is a complete POS and not a selling feature but a seamless connected subway is. Its better that SCC has slowed on development so the quality will be far higher when it resumes.
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No matter what it's replaced with, it's going to be a decade or so before it opens. So you want to hold development back in Scarborough for another decade.

Not sure about this anti-Scarborough motives.
 
nfitz said:
No matter what it's replaced with, it's going to be a decade or so before it opens. So you want to hold development back in Scarborough for another decade.

Not sure about this anti-Scarborough motives.
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That's a valid point and It bothers me as well. But I think the reason they are doing it is because of the Political games and the appetite by a few outside Politicians to continue to cut corners in Scarborough. And I cant really disagree with that either so it wont likely be lifted until after the SCC transit is resolved
 
OneCity said:
I have admitted that. Its going to take decades to even start to rejuvenate these bad areas even slightly and similar to change the overall bad perception. But Ill be the first to say Scarborough is one of the most beautiful places in the GTA and people that live here outside the few bad pockets will strongly agree. Its a terribly ridiculous and unfair perception. Ive seriously lived all over the GTA (not Milton :) but have friends there, not Oakville but Burlington) if not worked. These few small pockets of are the exception and the more the Borough gets connected to the City the more it will be promoted as part of the City. I moved from DT to here for family reasons years ago and I was seriously F'n scared lol, with only having the stigma imprinted in my head until I realized quickly how ridiculous the narrative was and how large and diverse the suburb was.

A well connected Scarborough will be a very desirable place to live in the future in many parts it already is. But yes it will take a long time like all plans do and for those few bad pockets its about stopping the bleed more than anything right now. Many other areas of the Borough will see immediate life just like Golden Mile is proposed to off the LRT extension. There are lots of old plazas and developable real estate that will be completely nuked for large developments changing the streetscape once there is transit on the way. Given the location to the City there is more potential here when transit comes than people give credit.
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Well let's hope regardless Scarborough cleans up, because right now for many it's downtown or the 905.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Why in the world did they build a rubber tire metro?
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They copied the Paris Métro, which went with rubber tires in the 1950's. See link and especially this link.

Advantages

Compared to steel wheel on steel rail, the advantages of rubber-tyred metro systems are:
  • Smoother rides (with little jostling around).
  • Faster acceleration and higher speed, along with the ability to climb or descend steeper slopes (~gradient 13%) than would be feasible with conventional rail tracks, which would likely need a rack instead.
    • For example, the rubber-tyred Line 2 of the Lausanne Metro has grades of up to 12%.
  • Shorter braking distances, allowing trains to be signalled closer together.
  • Quieter rides in open air (both inside and outside the train).
  • Greatly reduced rail wear with resulting reduced maintenance costs of those parts.
Disadvantages

The higher friction and increased rolling resistance cause disadvantages (compared to steel wheel on steel rail):
  • Higher energy consumption.
  • Possibility of tyre blow-outs - not possible in railway wheels.
  • Hotter operation.
  • Weather variance. (Applicable only to above-ground installations)
    • Loss of the traction-advantage in inclement weather (snow and ice).
  • Heavier as steel rails remain for switching purposes, to provide electricity or grounding to the trains and as a safety backup.
  • Tyres which frequently need to be replaced; contrary to rails using steel wheels, which need to be replaced less often.
  • Creation of air pollution; tyres break down during use and turn into particulate matter, which can be dangerous.
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It may be easy to "move" STC to Kennedy station, but that does nothing for riders from the north and north-east of Scarborough who would be stack with extremely long bus rides to the subway terminus at Kennedy.

The right solution is to extend the subway as far as possible north and east, resulting in much shorter bus rides for those residents.

Obviously, any artificial restrictions in the Kennedy area should be removed. If it grows faster than STC as a result - all the better.

The cut-n-cover option should be on the table if it reduces the overall cost. The Midland corridor might be most suitable for cut-n-cover, as it has a lengthy section without residential houses.
 
In other news, Scarborough Town Centre's population increased in the 2016 Census to 14,150 people. This is a 16% increase over 2011.
 
innsertnamehere said:
In other news, Scarborough Town Centre's population increased in the 2016 Census to 14,150 people. This is a 16% increase over 2011.
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only because new condos were built between this census and the last one was done. What we relly need to know is how many of them actually use the SRT or any form of public transit on a regular bases.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Well let's hope regardless Scarborough cleans up, because right now for many it's downtown or the 905.
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Agree. We know.

Unfortunately its not "Scarborough" Its the City of Toronto as a whole that needs to get on board. If it was just "Scarborough" this drawn out nonsense wouldn't be going on. Scarborough certainly needs extensive local transit but we also need to be better connected to the City of Toronto. We start moving in that direction everything will be fine.

Scarborough's Lakefront and Bluffsfront is not seeing any investment issues and they are going to complete the waterfront-Bluffs trail in a few years which should be amazing. This stretch of neighborhoods and more importantly the natural areas from the Beaches to Pickering is really some of the nicest in the GTA. So its really not all bad. Once it has a connected City Centre, have a fully City East-West line/start to a local transit network branching out to the neglected areas and rejuvenating parts in between the ball will be rolling finally. Add Sheppard soon after and I see a lot of reason for optimism. Like I said Scarborough is far, far, far better than its image and a well connected next door neighbour to the City alone will be a selling feature as the GTA continues to grow.
 
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EastYorkTTCFan said:
only because new condos were built between this census and the last one was done. What we relly need to know is how many of them actually use the SRT or any form of public transit on a regular bases.
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You might get more worthwhile meat by looking at how many people are using public transit at NYCC and that will give you an idea of what the next tier of buyers will be doing at SCC.

Only people that have to use the SRT, use the SRT. There will be a much higher bedroom to public transit ratio with the subway. Much higher.
 
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EastYorkTTCFan said:
What we relly need to know is how many of them actually use the SRT or any form of public transit on a regular bases.
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What we need to find out is how many of them would use the subway if it was built, and how many would use any alternative proposals. It's stupid to use the currently-poor public transit options (and thus poor ridership) in Scarborough as an argument against building good public transit options.
 
amnesiajune said:
What we need to find out is how many of them would use the subway if it was built, and how many would use any alternative proposals. It's stupid to use the currently-poor public transit options (and thus poor ridership) in Scarborough as an argument against building good public transit options.
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This is a bad argument.
 
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