Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TheTigerMaster]

I wonder if the TTC will need to order any extra trains if this extension of BD is approved. If that is the case, we could be have two or three TRs running on the line in a few years.

 

[Solid Snake]

"Common sense" is what makes Rob Ford say "we can pay for transit by cutting the waste".

Real transit planning involves looking at budgets and travel patterns (which often aren't intuitive). If cutting the BD extension back to STC is what is needed to make a BD extension happen so that the budget is comprable to the current SRT LRT plan, then we should consider it. Even if it doesn't mean a connection between Subway and Sheppard LRT at the not-a-logical-location-for-a-major-transit-hub of McCowan and Sheppard.

The provincial government is about to implement new dedicated taxes for transit. You can't expect people to pay new taxes and at the same time just accept not getting the improvements they were promised on transit.

 

[SJD_Toronto]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/29/councillors-want-scarborough-rt-converted-into-a-subway/

My guess is you can count Denzel Minnan-Wong to be on the no list to a Bloor-Danforth subway extension.

 

[Rainforest]

I've long thought it would be good to build a busway along the south side of the 401 between Centenntial College and Neilson. It would be pretty short and the land is vacant, but it would allow buses to Malvern (namely the 133) to cut a good 10 minutes or so off its trip and would permit a high frequency of buses to operate between Centennital and STC (by making Centennial on the way to other destinations). This marginal improvement would offer substantial travel time benefits to Malvernites.

I made a map describing the idea.

Yes, this is a good option.

 

[Rainforest]

Yes, if a logical transportation hub is McCowan and Sheppard where, other than the one residential building, the area is about as low density as it gets, then the "common sense" we are talking about is really the sensibility of people that don't understand that all the world's workings can't be summed up in a paragraph or a factoid in the Toronto Sun. The area designated a "place to grow" is Scarborough Centre and the largest weekly trip generator in the area is likely the mall and not the car dealership or the Canadian Tire. It is far cheaper to run every other LRT on tracks down to Scarborough Centre than to extend the subway and create a huge bus station so close to the "place to grow" but not close enough to walk. The hub of GO, bus routes, the subway, and LRT seem to be more suited to a location at Scarborough Centre.

But then the connection between the Sheppard route and the subway is less effective. Plus, a bunch of buses and / or LRT vehicles needs to cross 401 from the north to get to STC.

IMO, it is better to let the riders transfer at Sheppard and McCowan. If their destination is STC, they just take subway for one stop. On Yonge, all buses save for 97 terminate at Finch, but a lot of destinations are at the next stop (North York Centre) and this does not seem to deter anybody.

If the subway terminates at STC and does not go up to Sheppard, then I'd prefer the original SLRT plan over subway.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It doesn't surprise me as the Ford brothers will just say they will not back a subway plan that is semi-paid with taxpayer dollars.

I have a guy feeling a Bloor-Danforth extension plan will die next week at city council. I hope I'm wrong, but we shall see... I just wonder which other councilors will back a B-D extension over the LRT plan.

A 2 Bloor-Danforth extension would be mostly above ground, not underground, as the Fords want. They would prefer it to be all underground, which will add to the cost.

 

[CDL.TO]

The provincial government is about to implement new dedicated taxes for transit. You can't expect people to pay new taxes and at the same time just accept not getting the improvements they were promised on transit.

Never mind that you keep dodging my points (I'm still waiting to see where I "kept saying that SELRT was rapid transit"), at least I now see your point. The promise for transit in Scarborough is for an LRT conversion and extension so therefore you support the LRT plan.

Personally, I'm willing to consider alternatives within the same budget.

 

[smallspy]

Personally, I'm willing to consider alternatives within the same budget.

But it's not within the same budget. It's an extra $500mil (or more), and that will have to be found from somewhere.

For reference, by the TTC's own calculations that extra $500mil - still unbudgeted, remember - extends the SRT out to Malvern Town Centre, and thus even more people no longer need to take a bus or drive to rapid transit.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TOareaFan]

But it's not within the same budget. It's an extra $500mil (or more), and that will have to be found from somewhere.

For reference, by the TTC's own calculations that extra $500mil - still unbudgeted, remember - extends the SRT out to Malvern Town Centre, and thus even more people no longer need to take a bus or drive to rapid transit.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

It is an extra $500 million yes, but also covers a shorter area than the current plans (I think I read that) so aside from what you could do with that $500 million (if it was even in a budget) the subway plan already covers less distance.....and a key part of this "plan" is that Metrolinx/TTC change their priorities....they want this to come out of the very first money that flows to Toronto from any new revenue tools that they support.

Like I said, get ready for a whole bunch of these types of "conditional support" announcements from all over the GTA.

 

[CDL.TO]

But it's not within the same budget. It's an extra $500mil (or more), and that will have to be found from somewhere.

For reference, by the TTC's own calculations that extra $500mil - still unbudgeted, remember - extends the SRT out to Malvern Town Centre, and thus even more people no longer need to take a bus or drive to rapid transit.

I know that. That's why in my posts in this thread I've been suggesting that they should study the alternative of building the subway only to STC rather than to Sheppard, which would reduce the cost of most or all of the $500 million.
.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Wonder if they can route the Sheppard LRT to STC on grade, if the transfer is that important.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

so aside from what you could do with that $500 million (if it was even in a budget) the subway plan already covers less distance...

It also removes service from existing stations. Particularly Lawrence East, which has almost 9,000 riders a day - over 20% of the ridership on the existing SRT. That's more than stations like Museum, Castle Frank, and similar to Greenwood.

 

[CDL.TO]

It also removes service from existing stations. Particularly Lawrence East, which has almost 9,000 riders a day - over 20% of the ridership on the existing SRT. That's more than stations like Museum, Castle Frank, and similar to Greenwood.

How much of that is walk-in, and how much of that is bus transfers? There would be a new station at Lawrence East and McCowan, which would directly serve Scarborough General Hospital.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And the Museum, and plus it would add an extra route since technically the GO Corridor could have an additional station at the current Lawrence East and/or Ellesmere if it wanted to as part of regional rail.

 

[gweed123]

Wonder if they can route the Sheppard LRT to STC on grade, if the transfer is that important.

AoD

I wonder if they can route a branch of the SELRT along the Stouffville corridor, and then connect it to the what-will-then-be-abandoned SRT ROW into STC. That would seem like a logical routing.