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coffey1
Active Member
I was talking about STC. When you combine the 3. They still perform very wellwhen compared to the rest of the line .. And that's based on RT numbers. I can only imagine when its a useful, attractive integrated technology
You are in control of your keyboard as well . No need to feed the Troll & I apologize for yelling if it offended you
Ive had enough of the personal attack by this Troll. He just doesn't stop with the personal attacks.
salsa
Senior Member
It seems to be lost on subway supporters that Kennedy station itself is a major hub given that several transit lines will converge there from different directions (GO, SRT, Crosstown E, Crosstown W, Line 2), all of which also connect to a number of other hubs besides STC such as U of T, Unionville, Yonge-Eglinton, or downtown. So all the hoopla about how the SRT imposes a forced transfer in the same direction for subway riders ignores the fact that a lot of these subway riders are not actually going in the same damn direction.
Sure, it would be nice to get rid of that one particular transfer, but to do it at any cost would be irresponsible. Thing is, no matter where the subway stops, there will always be another "hub" somewhere else that is not far away. So if you extend the subway to STC, then what's stopping anyone from using the same excuses to extend it even further to Markham centre?
The RT has better ridership today then what this subway will have 15 years from now.
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salsa
Senior Member
I'm concerned that this is what will happen on Line 1 when the Spadina and Yonge extensions are built. Nobody is talking about it.
coffey1
Active Member
Yes certainly if we build the "one stop". If we build a surface subway in the same corridor as the LRT plan the ridership will be much higher than the current RT
There is no reason to be debating a one stop subway vs. a transfer LRT. Just merge the two
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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The Queen and Queens Park transfers are very poorly designed. Yet people deal. There's only a transfer on sheppard because of the subway debate, and still once you get to Yonge you have to transfer. Same with Bloor Yonge (or Pape/Eglinton East in the future.)
I'm talking just switching modes of transportation. You just get off at Kennedy and take the RT. How is that so bad?
salsa
Senior Member
In 2012 the daily ridership at Scarborough Centre + McCowan station (combined) was 33,760. The ridership at Lawrence East was only 8,370. So while it would be unfortunate if Lawrence bus riders are unable to transfer to the subway, adding that extra stop to the subway is not gonna make the ridership "much higher". Especially if the Stouffville line will start competing for those same riders in the near future.
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pstogios
Senior Member
I don't accept your views and plans because you keep saying stupid things that discredit your entire opinion.
I think many others here have come to that realization as well, as evidenced by the fact that this entire forum has became a battle against you.
Stop the paranoia. You are a sick person.
Stick to the facts.
There is no Downtown left.
There is no simpleton plan.
There is no Media Bias.
There is no Political Conspiracy against Scarborough.
There is no Plan to Dispespect Scarborough.
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coffey1
Active Member
Thats good ridership for areas stagnated from development with the limp RT plan, that also good with the refusal for commuters further down Lawrence to even bother to take public transit unless they have too. The Stouffville line seems to be a factor when we discuss Subway and not a factor for LRT. Bottom line there has been a clear message from Scarborough as a whole asking for better integrations and there has been a refusal to do so by those other than the majority of Scarborough council and the Mayor's the last 2 terms. A subway on the LRT corridor would already do good now & would be one of the most successful lines once these areas are built up in 30-50 years once its built up around these high development areas..
Debating an underground one stop as they are today Is not a fair comparison the LRT. Scarborough hasn't been given the proper comparable of a 5-7 stop Subway on the same route. This whole debate is politically construed .
coffey1
Active Member
@pstogios,
Never noticed you to be very political correct. Ill try to explain without canned terms if it helps you accept an outside view without getting personal.
There is no Downtown left. - AKA Downtown Council (Partner an agenda with a major media outlet in the City). Ill even add in any area with a subway stop in their riding and voting against finding a solution to integrate Scarborough effectively are also part of the problem ("Transit haves").
There is so simpleton plan. The plan is absurd when it comes to integration. LRT's with poorly integrated transfers vs. expensive one stop underground subway. It doesn't have to be one mode or one type of infrastructure. There are multiple needs in a plan for Scarborough that don't suit one "patch" plan. Subways, subways, subways is a simpleton plan, LRT, LRT , LRT is also a simpleton plan. Surely we can compromise and open up the square box of Politically motivated plans.
The whole debate is unfair and we are not even comparing the benefits is subways vs. LRT on the same corridor. A surface subway is the only true compromise to the SLRT so this is a completely unreasonable debate. When Scarborough clearly voted for greater respect from the City the only ones outside of Scarborough that listened was the Mayor and a few centrists. Most "transit have" councilor didn't even budge. The design flaws in the LRT plan should be addressed and can be with some moderate attention to detail in the design. In the big picture it wont break the bank whatsoever to upgrade from LRT to subway on the same corridor (especially at this point). And does a much greater service to Scarborough's future.
They should aleast have enough respect to fix one the two design issues after all this nonsense
Never noticed you to be very political correct. Ill try to explain without canned terms if it helps you accept an outside view without getting personal.
There is no Downtown left. - AKA Downtown Council (Partner an agenda with a major media outlet in the City). Ill even add in any area with a subway stop in their riding and voting against finding a solution to integrate Scarborough effectively are also part of the problem ("Transit haves").
There is so simpleton plan. The plan is absurd when it comes to integration. LRT's with poorly integrated transfers vs. expensive one stop underground subway. It doesn't have to be one mode or one type of infrastructure. There are multiple needs in a plan for Scarborough that don't suit one "patch" plan. Subways, subways, subways is a simpleton plan, LRT, LRT , LRT is also a simpleton plan. Surely we can compromise and open up the square box of Politically motivated plans.
The whole debate is unfair and we are not even comparing the benefits is subways vs. LRT on the same corridor. A surface subway is the only true compromise to the SLRT so this is a completely unreasonable debate. When Scarborough clearly voted for greater respect from the City the only ones outside of Scarborough that listened was the Mayor and a few centrists. Most "transit have" councilor didn't even budge. The design flaws in the LRT plan should be addressed and can be with some moderate attention to detail in the design. In the big picture it wont break the bank whatsoever to upgrade from LRT to subway on the same corridor (especially at this point). And does a much greater service to Scarborough's future.
They should aleast have enough respect to fix one the two design issues after all this nonsense
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pstogios
Senior Member
Coffey1 you can actually talk sense if you just stick to the transit itself. Please stop with the conspiracy comments and attacks on the media or downtown elites (whatever that means). It's getting tiresome and all it does is sidetrack the conversation (and adds fuel to the fire for the politicians to pounce on) away from transit talk.
Yes there should be a compromise. Yes the plan should be a mix of transit modes -- as long as they are matched to the population density and ridership on those lines. I'm not disputing your ideas (other than the adamant stance against any and all transfers, which are absolutely normal things on transit systems around the world).
I'm disputing your paranoia.
Yes there should be a compromise. Yes the plan should be a mix of transit modes -- as long as they are matched to the population density and ridership on those lines. I'm not disputing your ideas (other than the adamant stance against any and all transfers, which are absolutely normal things on transit systems around the world).
I'm disputing your paranoia.
crs1026
Superstar
Hear, hear. I'm not sure whether it's paranoia or just lousy debating technique, but it sure undermines your good points.
I will even accept that Scarboro may have been given the short end of the stick in some ways in the past. The solution to that is to remediate the areas that were underdelivered. Overdelivering on transit won't fix these other things.
If you take a community with little quality of life, and give them a subway to downtown, you don't get a thriving community. You get people going downtown to shop, see a show, or whatever. You want these things coming into Scarboro, not people leaving to get them. The one-stop won't deliver these things to Scarboro.
- Paul
Tulse
Senior Member
I can't take seriously anyone in this debate who uses the word "respect". Transit is about moving people, not making them feel better.
coffey1
Active Member
Most here want both. No one in Scarborough voted for a one stop subway. And there are other options. The problem is the debate is "take it or leave it" with no attention to details to improve a plan which has been identified to have flaws.
A surface subway will give the same quality of life and only better to these areas and the core of Scarborough as a whole. The LRT local network should also be funded. Its the cost of integrating fairly & isn't even being debated unfortunately.
coffey1
Active Member
I cant take anyone seriously that lives near a subway stop in Toronto and advocates for Scarborough to be transitioned in on a separated technology in area which shouldn't require a transfer. Hypocrisy at its finest. It's called fair integration & it requires some thought aside from chanting one technology