Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Tulse]

Cut the cut the crap with the transfer LRT PR campaign

I just don't understand the antipathy towards "the transfer". It seems absurd to promote a hugely expensive one-stop subway over a completely funded LRT that would serve far more people, and build local transit within Scarborough, just because of a "transfer". I have a transfer in my daily commute, and it's really not a big deal.

 

[robmausser]

I just don't understand the antipathy towards "the transfer". It seems absurd to promote a hugely expensive one-stop subway over a completely funded LRT that would serve far more people, and build local transit within Scarborough, just because of a "transfer". I have a transfer in my daily commute, and it's really not a big deal.

it makes even less sense when you realize that people who would have been served by stops on the LRT will have to take a bus, transfer at the subway anyways....

 

[coffey1]

I just don't understand the antipathy towards "the transfer". It seems absurd to promote a hugely expensive one-stop subway over a completely funded LRT that would serve far more people, and build local transit within Scarborough, just because of a "transfer". I have a transfer in my daily commute, and it's really not a big deal.

First of all we shouldn't be debating a "one stop subway" vs a "transfer LRT" The whole debate has been dumbed down to 2 polarizing plans & I refuse to pick a side unless I unfortunately am forced to vote on one.

The SLRT and Sheppard LRT are terrible designs in terms of integration Period. This isnt new information nor is it rocket science to fix. Its time to fix the transfer plan, not fight to force upon these areas.

A surface subway can replace the SLRT & a LRT conversion on Sheppard can provide equality and a seamless line. If we refuse to even do one of the two its a mjor shame and disrespect from the rich areas and outside areas in the City fighting tooth and nail to stuff these transfer plans upon certain areas of Scarborough.

It's the location of the transfer that's the issue.

1) The SLRT transfer resides before Scarborough City Center which is supposed to be a major Growth node. The transfer should be after here.
2) An EXTRA transfer has been created on Sheppard in the same direction. Absurdity

Both can be easily fixed with slight political will. But the refusal to acknowledge this is astounding at this point. It's important we integrate effectively and grow this City together. This latest Transfer LRT campaign is very disrespectful to the people in these areas. No attempt to fix these clear issues.

 

[Tulse]

coffey1, you are still not explaining why transfers must be eliminated even in the face of a superior and fully-funded transit plan. Again, this sounds less like a rational concern and more like the "Scarborough needs a subway to be shown respect" argument.

 

[coffey1]

coffey1, you are still not explaining why transfers must be eliminated even in the face of a superior and fully-funded transit plan. Again, this sounds less like a rational concern and more like the "Scarborough needs a subway to be shown respect" argument.

Seriously? Superior? It got its benefits that can be debated when compared with the other crap thats been proposed. For a bit more capital the subway can achieve the 7 stop on the surface which much SUPERIOR benefit to both plans.


SLRT

1) Does a SUPERIOR plan transfer before Scarborough's major growth node?
2) The transfer to Scarborough Center is not attractive to business or commuters. If the transfer was after it would be understandable as a hub
Maybe you find it acceptable because this is how it was originally built. People currently avoid the RT for many reasons. This is one.

Sheppard Transfer.

1)Commuters west of McCowan are forced to take a short EXTRA transfer in the same direction to a short run on a different infrastructure. You really dont get this?
2) We have Elderly, small children and disabled already transferring and DONT need another one because the City wants to cheap out and sperate Scarborough
We have built an underground subway for the rich people in North York. Shh lets not upset them and change anything to help integrate Scarborough

Just because you fully fund something doesn't make it right. The transfers are not in locations where transfer are ACCEPTABLE. What a joke

Not even an effort to fix these issues for Scarborough. What an absolute shame that people think this is a great plan. Wait not even great it Superior. lol. Some people in this City (most close to a subway) don't give a crap about tweaking these plans for the future of Scarborough even after the message has been clear.

I don't like where this is heading for next election for anyone in this City. A complete disrespect by Politicians in this City not to address two easily fixable problems and now a fight over two polarizing completely inadequate plans

 

[Cobra]

Seriously? Superior? Maybe debatable with other crap that been proposed. For a bit more cost the subway can achieve the 7 stop on the surface which much SUPERIOR benefit to both plans


SLRT

1) Does a SUPERIOR plan transfer before Scarborough's major growth node?
2) The transfer to Scarborough Center is not attractive to business or commuters. If the transfer was after it would be understandable as a hub


Sheppard Transfer.

1)Commuters west of McCowan are forced to take an EXTRA transfer in the same direction to a short run on a different infrastructure. If you dont get this.
2) We have build an underground subway for the rich people in North York
3) We have Elderly, small children and disabled already transferring and DONT need another one because the City wants to cheap out and sperate Scarborough

Just because you fully fund something doesn't make it right. The transfers are not in locations where transfer are ACCEPTABLE. What a joke

Not even an effort to fix these issues for Scarborough. What an absolute shame.

Transfers aren't the end of the world when they are done right. The transfer at Kennedy is horrible and whoever designed that station should be investigated for falsification of whatever degrees he claims to possesses.

SLRT
Kennedy needs a complete (yet expensive) reconfiguration

Sheppard
Although I think the Sheppard line should go to the very least Victoria Park, ideally Agincourt, the TTC transfer was practical with 1 side of the platform being the subway and the other side being LRT

Future transfers
Example of future transfer configuration TTC and Metrolinx needs to adopt

At the very least
Sheppard-Yonge, St.George & Bloor Yonge

When possible
Montreal

 

[coffey1]

Transfers aren't the end of the world when they are done right. The transfer at Kennedy is horrible and whoever designed that station should be investigated for falsification of whatever degrees he claims to possesses.

SLRT
Kennedy needs a complete (yet expensive) reconfiguration

Sheppard
Although I think the Sheppard line should go to the very least Victoria Park, ideally Agincourt, the TTC transfer was practical with 1 side of the platform being the subway and the other side being LRT

Future transfers
Example of future transfer configuration TTC and Metrolinx needs to adopt

At the very least
Sheppard-Yonge, St.George & Bloor Yonge

When possible
Montreal

Transfers are completely understandable when done right and LOCATED right. They aernt in these cases for Scarborough. No need to inconvenience the commuters further and create any type of deterrent for growth by keep SCC of Toronto's main transit artery.

The argument that transfers are not bad is being used irresponsibly to promote 2 very poorly designed transfers. If they started the transfer at SCC nobody would care. If they upgraded Sheppard stub to LRT nobody would care.

But many here, especially those close by these points do care. Unfortunately outsiders don't. I dont live that close to either transfer and would benefit from a "knee jerk" plan. But I care more about Scarborough's future as a whole. As its an absolute shame to have the majority voice ignored and drown out.

 

[Cobra]

Transfers are completely understandable when done right and LOCATED right. They aernt in these cases for Scarborough. No need to inconvenience the commuters further and create any type of deterrent for growth by keep SCC of Toronto's main transit artery.

Capacity issues, reliability and the route has been the major deterrent. The transfer itself as well, not it's location.

Can't have growth if that part of the line can't accommodate more riders

 

[coffey1]

Capacity issues, reliability and the route has been the major deterrent. The transfer itself as well, not it's location.

Can't have growth if that part of the line can't accommodate more riders

Its attractiveness to build a quality Growth Center that will never come. There is a HUGE selling feature difference between a major Growth node with a seamless connection to the Core. Or a Growth node with an extra transfer.

But hey its only Scarborough Center? Not like Scarborough is in Toronto and that would matter. But It does matter for the quality of growth in the future.

Satellite businesses will CERTAINLY more inclined to go to North York, Vaughan, Islington, even Richmond Hill now before considering Scarborough Center for a Satellite or small business venture.

But who cares? It's Scarborough. Just keep your heads buried in teh sand and pretend teh current network doesn't exist. Keep fighting the good fight all. Instead of trying to help

 

[Cobra]

Its attractiveness to build a quality Growth Center that will never come. There is a HUGE selling feature difference between a major Growth node with a seamless connection to the Core. Or a Growth node with an extra transfer.

But hey its only Scarborough Center? Not like Scarborough is in Toronto and that would matter. But It does matter for the quality of growth in the future.

Satellite businesses will CERTAINLY just go to North York Vaughan, Islington, like even Richmond Hill before considering Scarborough Center.

But who cares? It's Scarborough. Just keep your heads buried in teh sand and pretend teh current network doesn't exist. Keep fighting the good fight all. Instead of trying to help

Well good news for you is that the subway is happening one way or another. The better news however is Keesmaat pledging to completely redesign the STC area to make it a more vibrant and functional downtown. That's a positive point you should be happy about. For once, the city actually want to do something with STC and recognize its untapped potential.

 

[coffey1]

Well good news for you is that the subway is happening one way or another. The better news however is Keesmaat pledging to completely redesign the STC area to make it a more vibrant and functional downtown. That's a positive point you should be happy about. For once, the city actually want to do something with STC and recognize its untapped potential.

Completely. We need more Keesmat's types and less Matlows/Ainslie's' in this conversation right now at this juncture. I can only hope this is just a desperate last kick at the can for these Transfer City jabronies. And more effort gets spent on finding improvements and compromises to both plans. As well as promoting the City as a whole.

 

[salsa]

Its unfortunate that these morons can propose a surface subway on the same alignment as the LRT.

We need more Keesmat's types and less Matlows/Ainslie's' in this conversation right now at this juncture.

Don't forget to pay your respects to Matlow for passing a motion in city council to study the feasibility of a surface subway. “This is not a debate between LRTs and subways — this is a question, if we are able to build a subway to the town centre is it possible to do that and save hundreds and millions of dollars?”

To borrow your language, the Scarborough councillors who voted against this are morons.

 

[Tulse]

For a bit more capital the subway can achieve the 7 stop on the surface which much SUPERIOR benefit to both plans.

I think you're dreaming in Technicolor. There is no money for a 7 stop subway, and it is not at all clear that one could even run a surface subway in the areas proposed. You seem obsessed with the issue of transfers when they impact travel time only marginally (especially on a long trip like from Scarborough to downtown).

A complete disrespect by Politicians in this City

There's that word again. Worrying about "respect" rather than actual solutions that are affordable and will help the most people in Scarborough get around the city is a sure formula for disaster.

 

[coffey1]

Don't forget to pay your respects to Matlow for passing a motion in city council to study the feasibility of a surface subway. “This is not a debate between LRTs and subways — this is a question, if we are able to build a subway to the town centre is it possible to do that and save hundreds and millions of dollars?”

To borrow your language, the Scarborough councillors who voted against this are morons.

Yes most Politicians are self serving morons. But I dont really blame the ones who voted NO at that time as I would now since we NOW know the costs of the underground proposal. The reaction to the "one stop" has been about as opportunistic from one side of the debate as it could be instead helping to find a better solution.

What Matlow is doing right now promoting the rejected Transfer City is inexcusable and not helpful in an already extremely divisive debate. As you said he's aware there are other options. We need more compromised efforts. Not the same ol' rhetoric.

I think you're dreaming in Technicolor. There is no money for a 7 stop subway, and it is not at all clear that one could even run a surface subway in the areas proposed. You seem obsessed with the issue of transfers when they impact travel time only marginally (especially on a long trip like from Scarborough to downtown).
There's that word again. Worrying about "respect" rather than actual solutions that are affordable and will help the most people in Scarborough get around the city is a sure formula for disaster.

If "affordability" is being used to marginalize a specific are in any way it's disgusting. The cost of fair integration is what it is. It's about integrating effectively into the current system.

I think the majority of refusal and vile against integrating Scarborough more effectively stems from the DRL not being funded. And much is an attempt to find savings at Scarborough expense instead of being honest about the costs need to design & build properly. Too many heads are buried ignoring what has been built elsewhere in the City, taxes need to be raised and more lobbying from the Fed's need to be done on the DRL.

The City's Left tried to take the easier route (so they thought) and cheap out, cut corners and attack Scarborough. And they are still content on doing this instead of lobbying the Feds and demanding a Municipal tax to address matters correctly.

 

[RyanM12]

Transfers aren't the end of the world when they are done right. The transfer at Kennedy is horrible and whoever designed that station should be investigated for falsification of whatever degrees he claims to possesses.


Although I think the Sheppard line should go to the very least Victoria Park, ideally Agincourt, the TTC transfer was practical with 1 side of the platform being the subway and the other side being LRT

If we assume the DRL will eventually go to sheppard, it would be silly to have Sheppard terminate at VP, when you could have a single transfer at Don Mills.