CDL.TO
Moderator
Sorry, can't share.
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coffey1
Active Member
Funny how the Toronto Star isn't up in arms about the "politics" & lack of "facts" for any other projects other than continually bashing Scarborough. The one time this area gets to receive some political attention the left Political machine start a war against Scarborough to take away their funds. If this wasn't the case they would be looking for more efficient ways to spend this allocated funds within Scarborough itself.
smallspy
Senior Member
Final design and building may have taken 3 years, yes. But the EA and preliminary design was completed 2 or 3 years before the shovels hit the ground.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
44 North
Senior Member
That, and perhaps a blurb in another article, were about all we were given in terms of discussion about elevated transit for Eglinton East. And while they were 'perhaps talking about maybe studying it', they went full bore with accepting an unstudied underground solution costed exactly the same as the central portion. If they were so quick to accept that, why weren't they quick to propose elevated? I don't see "political interference", I see political incompetence.
***
And speaking of incompetence surrounding major transit projects, there's a new Star article talking about the lack of information re: the S(L)RT. People had no idea what they were getting. Yes, Ford played a major role in giving out misinformation. But I think the finger should be pointed at Miller and Giambrone on this one. All communication about the project was lacking, people were in the dark, and IMO it should've always been called a "subway" instead of "LRT" - because it is a subway line.
The article presents us with one of the only (or the only) rendering of what we were to get. I believe it was scrounged from a TTC report, and if I'm not mistaken it's erroneously showing a Mark II vehicle.
Ah, cool. I definitely like how Calgary (and Edmonton, and Ottawa, and KW) are doing LRT. IMO there's a lot more flexibility than what we're seeing in TO. With the exception of the mothballed SLRT, it seems here we can only build light rail either in the middle of the street, or underground - very little in between. Whereas in virtually every other city with LRT significant portions of lines are completely separate from limiting factors like a road's speed limit or traffic signals.
Having said that, I'll still hold Vancouver to a higher regard for taking things to a higher level and continuing to build a true subway/metro system.
junctionist
Senior Member
Vancouver seems to have inherited the philosophy that built the great subway systems of the early 20th century--choose the lowest-cost method of grade separation, build minimalist stations and keep expanding.
coffey1
Active Member
The Star is using a small special interest group in Scarborough to help there narrative. Even there own BS poll show the support in Scarborough is pro-subway. Scarborough is a big area but the majority support is for subway because the LRT connects poorly to the citizens it serves and leaves out many key large neglected areas whereas the subway will do more for the "majority".
The SLRT support that is fluctuating is from those in Toronto that already have some form of rapid transit near by & either want more or better service.
Nothing has changed. The Star is a disgrace
The SLRT support that is fluctuating is from those in Toronto that already have some form of rapid transit near by & either want more or better service.
Nothing has changed. The Star is a disgrace
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
These people are not loyal to Scarborough. They should be removed from the borough for their defection. Downtown liberals are not welcome around these parts.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Happens when the farmers in the Township of Scarborough get replaced by the city slickers?
APTA-2048
Senior Member
You think the subway extension serves the majority? Do you also think the Scarborough LRT will run down the centre of the road?
Voltz
Senior Member
I'm really not sure what you are basing these claims on, they are at least not supported by the facts, if not contradicted by them.
And before I'm accused of being some down town elitist. I live in Scarborough and take transit down town everyday. My commute would be better served by LRT, not this Subway.
coffey1
Active Member
Seriously? Don't even know how to respond to such an ignorant comment. So ill just repost it so others can "Holier-than-thou" D-bags Scarborough has to deal with.
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coffey1
Active Member
Trust me I get it. The solution in Scarborough is not as simple LRT or Subway line fixes all anyway. Many would benefit more from the LRT stop being close by than the subway. But there are too many who don't & having a shorter bus trip and a direct ride downtown Is a great benefit for many others.
I'd strongly advocate for a full LRT loop with the SLRT as it would provide a solid local network to all key areas of Scarborough. The SLRT on its own with a Sheppard extension of the subway stub is terrible transit planning & leaves out too many key areas and IMO creates a 3rd layer of transit inequality in Toronto. The Sheppard subway stub should have been and should be addressed as it has no part in a FAIR network
The Subway extension at 3-4 stops with no transfer and a more central route is much better the 7 stop SLRT & I know not everyone agrees but the MAJORITY in Scarborough does as it all depends where you live.
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APTA-2048
Senior Member
You could start by explaining how you think the subway serves the majority, despite all the evidence that says otherwise.
crs1026
Superstar
This debate got a little more poignant (but a whole lot more simplistic) for me today, with the news report that Ontario is reducing the number of medical residencies by 50 positions. That's a lot fewer doctors for the province. Presumably Scarberians are willing to forego their share so that they can have the more expensive transit option.
You can debate riderships, and stops, and preferences, and politics....but there's a billion dollar difference between the options, and we just don't have money left in this province to throw around.
- Paul
You can debate riderships, and stops, and preferences, and politics....but there's a billion dollar difference between the options, and we just don't have money left in this province to throw around.
- Paul
coffey1
Active Member
What evidence are you talking about?? The Left wing propaganda?
Both the LRT & Subway plans are not going to do enough. But reality is that's all we are given to debate & when you have 2 questionable plans its easy to go nowhere. But thats politics in general & all decision area made this way.
One plan will eliminate a transfer and shorter connecting bus routes for the MAJORITY to gain access to the main Job hub in this City. That's very important out here. If we want to improve local transit in Scarborough LRT and BRT could be implemented but should not be implemented based on politics but on an overall well connected system that does not segregate. ( i.e. leaving out Kingston/Morningside, Markham Kingston etc. & also removing the current subway stub on Sheppard so we are not flaunting Toronto's Class bias in the faces of Scarborough residents.) Im sure an expert can engineer a solution to Sheppard. But experts only do what they are asked.
You can believe your BS left wing polls and "evidence" all you want (some is true, some is not, some is not being used in conjunction & framework with other important facts). But Scarborough cannot fight a political machine on its own & the "other" party wont touch transit because they know you cant build without raising taxes & are enjoying watching the Liberals try to squirm out of there recent promises without big tax hikes (which are needed IMO).
Just curious does the Star own the land they operate on in Vaughan?
Both the LRT & Subway plans are not going to do enough. But reality is that's all we are given to debate & when you have 2 questionable plans its easy to go nowhere. But thats politics in general & all decision area made this way.
One plan will eliminate a transfer and shorter connecting bus routes for the MAJORITY to gain access to the main Job hub in this City. That's very important out here. If we want to improve local transit in Scarborough LRT and BRT could be implemented but should not be implemented based on politics but on an overall well connected system that does not segregate. ( i.e. leaving out Kingston/Morningside, Markham Kingston etc. & also removing the current subway stub on Sheppard so we are not flaunting Toronto's Class bias in the faces of Scarborough residents.) Im sure an expert can engineer a solution to Sheppard. But experts only do what they are asked.
You can believe your BS left wing polls and "evidence" all you want (some is true, some is not, some is not being used in conjunction & framework with other important facts). But Scarborough cannot fight a political machine on its own & the "other" party wont touch transit because they know you cant build without raising taxes & are enjoying watching the Liberals try to squirm out of there recent promises without big tax hikes (which are needed IMO).
Just curious does the Star own the land they operate on in Vaughan?
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