Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[coffey1]

This debate got a little more poignant (but a whole lot more simplistic) for me today, with the news report that Ontario is reducing the number of medical residencies by 50 positions. That's a lot fewer doctors for the province. Presumably Scarberians are willing to forego their share so that they can have the more expensive transit option.

You can debate riderships, and stops, and preferences, and politics....but there's a billion dollar difference between the options, and we just don't have money left in this province to throw around.

- Paul

Sure so should Vaughan & Richmond Hill. Also we can reduce the number of current stops in Toronto while we are at it to save on future maintenance funds and increase travel times for the Toronto residents with inferior transit options

Scarborough should not pay for the Liberals waste, incompetence and corruption & for someone to point the finger at Scarborough directly for the Provinces funding problems is disgraceful.

The Province's recent vote buying and money filtering of tax payers money has nothing to do with Scarborough and a lot to do with other areas in the GTA. But as soon as Scarborough is involved the pitchforks follow.

 

[Voltz]

What evidence are you talking about?? The Left wing propaganda?

Both the LRT & Subway plans are not going to do enough. But reality is that's all we are given to debate & when you have 2 questionable plans its easy to go nowhere. But thats politics in general & all decision area made this way.

One plan will eliminate a transfer and shorter connecting bus routes for the MAJORITY to gain access to the main Job hub in this City. That's very important out here. If we want to improve local transit in Scarborough LRT and BRT could be implemented but should not be implemented based on politics but on an overall well connected system that does not segregate. ( i.e. leaving out Kingston/Morningside, Markham Kingston etc. & also removing the current subway stub on Sheppard so we are not flaunting Toronto's Class bias in the faces of Scarborough residents.) Im sure an expert can engineer a solution to Sheppard. But experts only do what they are asked.

You can believe your BS left wing polls and "evidence" all you want (some is true, some is not, some is not being used in conjunction with other important fact).

Just curious does the Star own the land the operate on in Vaughan?

This subway is making it much less likely that transit will be built to those areas. It has killed the Sheppard LRT and is making it all but impossible that anything else will be even proposed.

The rest of your post is just,,, really???

 

[coffey1]

This subway is making it much less likely that transit will be built to those areas. It has killed the Sheppard LRT and is making it all but impossible that anything else will be even proposed.

The rest of your post is just,,, really???

Really your post is a pure Lie & BS. The extra subway funds are Municipal taxes have nothing to do with the Sheppard LRT funding.

If it was a good plan it could still be built but it wont. The majority of commuters on Sheppard dont want it as the Western portion connects poorly to the current Subway stub in the same direction. Why would anyone want a short bus to LRT then a short LRT ride to get off to a Subway then get off the Subway to another subway. That's not expert planning. That's a joke.

The only beneficiaries are the short run of Eastern residents from Markham to Morningside (myself included). Yet when you compare the benefits between both plans many would prefer a short ride on a bus to the subway. But hey thats reality Im sure the Star has the facts.

 

[Voltz]

Really your post is a pure Lie & BS. The extra subway funds are Municipal taxes have nothing to do with the Sheppard LRT funding.

If it was a good plan it could still be built but it wont. The majority of commuters on Sheppard dont want it as the Western portion connects poorly to the current Subway stub in the same direction. Why would anyone want a short bus to LRT then a short LRT ride to get off to a Subway then get off the Subway to another subway. That's not expert planning. That's a joke.

The only beneficiaries are the short run of Eastern residents from Markham to Morningside (myself included). Yet when you compare the benefits between both plans many would prefer a short ride on a bus to the subway. But hey thats reality Im sure the Star has the facts.

The political vote pandering that lead to the Scarborough Subway has lead the province to "delay" start of the Sheppard LRT to beyond 2021. Meaning that it will not ever get built, the liberals will be well gone by then and we will be in another decade of transit stagnation. I don't trust the liberals to ever build it even they are still in power by then.

These claims are also false. The LRT was only going to replace the 85 and 190 routes, the other bus routes that currently go to Don Mills Station would still have gone there.

 

[crs1026]

The Province's recent vote buying and money filtering of tax payers money has nothing to do with Scarborough and a lot to do with other areas in the GTA. But as soon as Scarborough is involved the pitchforks follow.

OK, but I'd rather see Scarborough get an LRT and then the money saved too, used to upgrade hospitals in Scarborough. Same absolute envelope, just better spent.

The idea that a subway, and only a subway, is how we show Scarboro the love is a bit precious.

- Paul

 

[GenerationW]

You could start by explaining how you think the subway serves the majority, despite all the evidence that says otherwise.

What other transit project in Toronto serves this mythical majority? The original Yonge subway was probably the closest, and that took decades of hurdles to overcome.

This subway is making it much less likely that transit will be built to those areas. It has killed the Sheppard LRT and is making it all but impossible that anything else will be even proposed.

The provincial Liberals killed the SELRT, just like downtown councillors have (up to now) killed the DRL. This subway won't stop future Scarborough projects; only lack of political consensus will
.

 

[coffey1]

The political vote pandering that lead to the Scarborough Subway has lead the province to "delay" start of the Sheppard LRT to beyond 2021. Meaning that it will not ever get built, the liberals will be well gone by then and we will be in another decade of transit stagnation. I don't trust the liberals to ever build it even they are still in power by then.

These claims are also false. The LRT was only going to replace the 85 and 190 routes, the other bus routes that currently go to Don Mills Station would still have gone there.

McGuinty delayed the line first (before FORD) & also cut it shorter (before FORD) & the same Liberals (Metrolinx chopped the SMLRT from "Next Wave") The Liberals were not vote pandering at all they were trying to be sneaky and play further games with Scarborough. Ford was an opportunist and jumped on this frail plan which had it's benefits slowly being chiseled away by the Liberal Gov't

The Liberal vote pandering didn't start until Ford changed the climate. The Provincial funding is already in place, so is the Feds & the City has to pick up the rest. No reason for the subway not to proceed. If the Liberals weren't toying with Scarborough there could have been a useful although flawed (Sheppard) LRT network built by now. And Sheppard could be considered useful with a loop around with the SMLRT. Without the SMLRT its absurd

Id rather see the subway loop keep moving forward even if it takes 50 years rather than have the Liberals try to hack an LRT network into Scarborough. The roll out, funding and design was all lacking & made it an easy political target as the not enough people would benefit.

I would be all for LRT if there was common sense and respect involved in adding it to the current infrastructure. That's never going to happen.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Truth of the matter is Phase 2 of GO electrification will start soon. We need to make a decision. In truth, we should be riding the SELRT, SMLRT, SRT and eglinton to the airport. Or subways. Just choose already.

 

[coffey1]

Truth of the matter is Phase 2 of GO electrification will start soon. We need to make a decision. In truth, we should be riding the SELRT, SMLRT, SRT and eglinton to the airport. Or subways. Just choose already.

Id love to believe that we'll have some clarity soon on matters with all the wonderful ongoing studies. The only thing that will save us from Politicians on the transit front will be an Olympics. Otherwise things will be dragggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeed out and most plans will stay just that

 

[44 North]

The provincial Liberals killed the SELRT, just like downtown councillors have (up to now) killed the DRL. This subway won't stop future Scarborough projects; only lack of political consensus will.

I agree with the first part, but not the second. Downtown was always the minority. Yes, there was a brief period when downtown preservationists voiced opposition to the intensification/blockbusting that went along with subway-building during that era. But downtown had little power. Whether they wanted a subway along Queen or an elevated ICTS above Front or not, I highly doubt anything would've been built.

There also was a group that opposed a streetcar subway - which wasn't so much a subway per se, but a plan to run an open trench along much of Queen. I think Steve Munro was part of that.

Id rather see the subway loop keep moving forward even if it takes 50 years

Hmm. A "subway loop". Has anyone ever thought it'd be a good idea to loop B/D through STC and have it become the Sheppard Subway? So basically it'd cannibalize Sheppard, but offer a similar shape as Line 1 (but rotated 90deg).

 

[WislaHD]

IMO subway loop only makes sense (fiscally) by bypassing STC and having Line 2 go to Agincourt instead.

 

[44 North]

Agincourt would be an interesting interchange point. The odd location of STC definitely complicates things in terms of having a proper terminus, which is one reason I was questioning the other week as to where an optimal terminus location for a Sheppard East subway extension would be: STC, or McCowan/Sheppard. I don't know about STC being bypassed, but perhaps another locale may be a better hub.
But this is what I was imagining, which isn't supposed to be taken seriously. Tho I do like the idea of swooping arcs instead of plain N/S and E/W lines.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This loop looks like a nightmare to operate.

 

[coffey1]

Agincourt would be an interesting interchange point. The odd location of STC definitely complicates things in terms of having a proper terminus, which is one reason I was questioning the other week as to where an optimal terminus location for a Sheppard East subway extension would be: STC, or McCowan/Sheppard. I don't know about STC being bypassed, but perhaps another locale may be a better hub.
But this is what I was imagining, which isn't supposed to be taken seriously. Tho I do like the idea of swooping arcs instead of plain N/S and E/W lines.
View attachment 52368

Serious or not.... It's both effective & attractive for commuters as it integrates the main "satellite business hubs" of Scarborough @ STC and Agincourt. From there Rapid bus could be run in to UTSC thru Durham and future possibly then remainder of Eastern Eglinton & Sheppard.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Id love to believe that we'll have some clarity soon on matters with all the wonderful ongoing studies. The only thing that will save us from Politicians on the transit front will be an Olympics. Otherwise things will be dragggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeed out and most plans will stay just that

Of course, city hall loves that crap. I'm not interested in a 2018 election on 1988 issues.