Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TheTigerMaster]

Portland's line is not even remotely comparable to the situation in Scarborough. They say that Portland's line will travel from the terminus to downtown in 17 min.

Why is this an issue?

 

[LNahid2000]

Toronto has 5 times the population of Portland (2,5 million vs 620 thousand), and almost 2 times the area (630 sq. km vs 380).

I hate when people look at irrelevant artificial municipal boundaries to determine the population difference between two areas. By that measure, before the amalgamation of Toronto, Portland and Toronto were almost the same size. In terms of metropolitan area, Portland is half the size of Toronto.

 

[Rainforest]

Why is this an issue?

Well, it shows why the Portland line is appealing; fast access to downtown. Not the case for Scarborough.

 

[Rainforest]

I hate when people look at irrelevant artificial municipal boundaries to determine the population difference between two areas. By that measure, before the amalgamation of Toronto, Portland and Toronto were almost the same size. In terms of metropolitan area, Portland is half the size of Toronto.

I said "Toronto is almost 2 times the area of Portland", you said "Portland is half the size of Toronto". What exactly do you hate here?

Municipal boundaries may be artificial but they still matter if the city's transit system is mandated to serve all population within those borders.

 

[44 North]

Just thought it might be of interest to see what Portland, OR got for $1.5B USD.....a 7.3 mile LRT line. Watch especially how it transitions into the downtown, on-street operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS-nc9GjVsc&feature=youtu.be

Does this really make you prefer a subway extension for Line 2?

Ah, cool. Thanks for this. I swear, the part at 21:00 looks like the future. Elevated roadways, elevated rapid transit line... any time a film shows the future, this is pretty much what we're greeted with - whether utopian or dystopian.

Here it is as a short timelapse:

[video=youtube;U2Vk62BADy8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Vk62BADy8[/video]

But because this is not fully grade-separate, I don't think it makes that great of a comparison to the SLRT plans.

 

[LNahid2000]

I said "Toronto is almost 2 times the area of Portland", you said "Portland is half the size of Toronto". What exactly do you hate here?

Municipal boundaries may be artificial but they still matter if the city's transit system is mandated to serve all population within those borders.

You were talking about the area of the municipal boundary, while I was talking about the population of the metropolitan area.

TriMet serves the Portland metropolitan area (not just Portland proper), so comparing the population of Portland proper to Toronto is irrelevant.

 

[Rainforest]

You were talking about the area of the municipal boundary, while I was talking about the population of the metropolitan area.

TriMet serves the Portland metropolitan area (not just Portland proper), so comparing the population of Portland proper to Toronto is irrelevant.

OK, fair enough; comparing the populations of the transit system's service areas is more useful than comparing the populations within municipal borders.

The population is still relevant, and so is the ridership volume. TriMet serves about 100 million rides a year, whereas the TTC serves more than 500 million.

 

[interchange42]

I've tweeted it from my personal account, but I will admit my following is pretty limited. If anybody with a greater following wants to tweet it out, it'll probably reach more people that way. And yes, the Gardiner East vote is definitely dominating the discussion right now.

It was tweeted from the UT account, of course, to about 35,000 people.

42

 

[WislaHD]

The article sure has generated a bit of discussion haha.

The article was also linked around the Facebook DRL group. The people there have difficulty comprehending it isn't an LRT, naturally.

 

[CDL.TO]

So much grade separation and a willingness to use creative alignments, not just in the middle of a street. It's wonderful.

 

[nfitz]

The article sure has generated a bit of discussion haha.

Has it? There's about 20 comments.

I tried commenting, but it doesn't seem to work from my Urban Toronto account.

There are so many things wrong with that suggested plan it's kind of hard to know where to start ...

 

[BurlOak]

the optimal would be for each track off the Scarborough line (from force of habit I still find myself calling it the Uxbridge Sub) to emerge between two of the LSE tracks....the 'westboubd' between LSE tracks 1 and 2, ad the eastbound between Tracks 3 and 4. Then you have a high speed switch that diverges so trains can be routed to either track going west, and from either track going east. Gives the greatest operational flexibility and not really more costly than a simpler design. I have seen jcts of this sort elsewhere.

The limiting factor for managing conflicting movements at a junction is how far in advance the route must be set to prevent the train from getting signal indications that will force it to slow down. The signalling between Scarboro and Union will have to be upgraded to handle this volume of traffic. (it was only just rebuilt.....there goes money down the drain! Hopefully what's there was designed with an eye to adding intermediate blocks someday.) using high speed turnouts throughout at Scarboro Jct is desirable so each movement exits the zone quicker, enabling the next route to be set.

- Paul

Here is a better sketch. It requires two bridges over Midland and the Scarborough (Uxbridge) line. Alternatively, the Scarborough line could be elevated over St. Clair (and over the LSE with 2 bridges) for probably less cost, but the residents north of St. Clair may not apporve. The Scarborough GO station would have to move to (just east of) Kennedy.

 

[LNahid2000]

http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/06/is_this_the_solution_to_the_scarborough_transit_debate/

 

[crs1026]

Here is a better sketch. It requires two bridges over Midland and the Scarborough (Uxbridge) line. Alternatively, the Scarborough line could be elevated over St. Clair (and over the LSE with 2 bridges) for probably less cost, but the residents north of St. Clair may not apporve. The Scarborough GO station would have to move to (just east of) Kennedy.

View attachment 47919

Perfect.

- Paul

 

[gweed123]

It was tweeted from the UT account, of course, to about 35,000 people.

42

Looks like the idea is getting passed along: http://www.blogto.com/city/2015/06/is_this_the_solution_to_the_scarborough_transit_debate/

It includes a link to the UT article as well.

EDIT: Missed LNahid's post. My bad.